Do you know what the UN is?

Post #86,918 by Brandioch 3/9/03 4:07:24 PM Reply	Do you know what the UN is? Your "alternative" is the US and whatever nations it could bribe to jump on board. Which puts us back in the 19th century. :D The problems with having all these other Democracies around is that they don't usually support the Fascist regime. :D So, Bush will push war, despite the opposition of just about every other Democracy in the world. Why are those Democracies NOT supporting us? Why don't they see the danger? What will it take to convince them that there is a threat? I know, let's have the US fake some papers saying Iraq is looking for nuclear material! hahahahahahahhaahahahhahaa
Post #86,938 by boxley 3/9/03 5:44:24 PM Reply	Ya want to expand on that? So, Bush will push war, despite the opposition of just about every other Democracy in the world. the numbers arnt that high. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #86,943 by TTC 3/9/03 6:26:10 PM Reply	Re: Ya want to expand on that? Is "115 countries" a high enough number for you? You tell me which of these 115 countries you define as DEMOCRACY, and which NOT, and by WHOSE definition? [link\|http://www.nam.gov.za/media/030227d.htm\|NAM] We reiterate our commitment to the fundamental principles of the non use of force and respect for the sovereignty, territorial integrity, political independence and security of all Member States of the United Nations. [link\|http://www.nam.gov.za/background/members.htm\|List of member states]
Post #87,193 by boxley 3/10/03 10:42:30 PM Reply	Hers is the full list from your cite defines democracies are goverments with FREE UNTAMPERED forms of elections in a parlimentary style of government where all populations are included and not run by Juntas or militias. A place where death of the opposition isnt the rule. I have group them by the following IMHO democracies 35 juntas 45 canibals 7 not a country yet 1 not a country any more 1 unknown 3 manorchy defined as the monarchy controls the government 7 occupied 2 fucking joke 2 ROFL 1 doesnt add up to 115 but math is not my strong suit. Afghanistan loyal Jurga is semi democratic (at the moment) Algeria Military government Angola junta Bahamas democracy Bahrain monarchy Bangladesh democracy Barbados democracy Belarus junta Belize fucking joke Benin democracy Bhutan Monarchy Bolivia Junta Botswana Republic Brunei Darussalam monarchy Burkina Faso junta Burundi Junta Cambodia Junta Cameroon Junta Cape Verde democracy Central African Republic cannibals Chad Junta Chile Junta Colombia Junta Comoros democracy Congo, canibals DPR of Cote d'Ivoire french colony currently under occupation by the french Cuba Junta Cyprus (which one) Djibouti Junta Dominican Republic Junta Ecuador democracy Egypt Junta Equatorial Guinea Junta Eritrea Junta Ethiopia Junta Gabon democracy Gambia democracy Ghana democracy Grenada democracy Guatemala junta Guinea which one? Guinea-Bissau ? Guyana democratic Honduras junta India democratic Indonesia democratic Iran, Islamic Rep of junta Iraq Junta (should they even be voting on this?) Jamaica democracy Jordan monarchy Kenya democracy Korea, DPR of right ROFL Kuwait monarchy Lao People's DR junta Lebanon occupied by Syria Lesotho democracy Liberia canibals Libyan Arab Jamahirya junta Madagascar junta Malawi democracy Malaysia democratic junta Maldives Junta Mali democracy Malta democracy Mauritania juna Mauritius junta Mongolia junta Morocco monarchy Mozambique junta Myanmar canibals Namibia democracy Nepal junta Nicaragua junta Niger junta Nigeria junta Oman junta Pakistan junta Palestine no such country YET Panama junta Papua New Guinea democracy Peru democracy Philippines democracy Qatar junta Rwanda cannibals Saint Lucia democracy Sao Tome and Principe democracy Saudi Arabia fucking joke Senegal democracy Seychelles democracy Sierra Leone democracy Singapore democracy (wierd one though) Somalia junta South Africa democracy (barely) Sri Lanka democracy (except for Tamils) Sudan junta Suriname democracy Swaziland Monarchy Syrian Arab Republic junta Tanzania, United Rep of democracy (but I am suspicious of this one) Thailand monarchial junta Togo Junta Trinidad and Tobago democracy till the muslims take over Tunisia junta Turkmenistan junta Uganda canibals United Arab Emirates junta Uzbekistan charismatic junta Vanuatu democracy Venezuela democracy (for the moment incipient junta) Viet Nam junta Yemen junta *Yugoslavia not a country any more Zambia democracy Zimbabwe canibals thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #87,230 by bluke 3/11/03 3:04:59 AM Reply	You left out a country I am sure you guess which one.
Post #86,950 by Brandioch 3/9/03 7:51:43 PM Reply	You ARE talking about nations in the 21st century, right? Nations that exist. That have real, living people in them. That I could, if I really wanted to, travel to said nations and meet those people.
Post #86,963 by boxley 3/9/03 9:13:32 PM Reply	yes, current democracies against the war So, Bush will push war, despite the opposition of just about every other Democracy in the world. now do you mean all except a few or even numbered of democracies are against? Try to name them so I can get an idea of exactly what you mean. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #86,947 by marlowe 3/9/03 7:25:39 PM Reply	The US was in charge of world diplomacy in the 19th century? I didn't know that. In fact, I still don't know that. Because it ain't so. Even Teddy Roosevelt didn't have that much power. You must get your history books from either Scholastic Publishing or planet Brandioch. Or maybe the Left Book Club. You gotta quit smoking that weed before you've lost too many brain cells to type. No oil for TotalFinaElf! CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere! Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Post #86,951 by Brandioch 3/9/03 7:57:41 PM Reply	It's called "reading with comprehension". :D Marlowe will ALWAYS respond when he thinks he's found something wrong. No, in the 19th century, we did not have the UN. Countries formed alliances by threats, purchases, marriages, whatever. Your friend in one battle would be your enemy in the next. Do some research about why the League of Nations was formed and how it became the UN.
Post #87,003 by bluke 3/10/03 3:47:11 AM Reply	Has the UN made things better? How many wars have occurred since the UN was established? The fact that another World War did not break out had nothing to do with the UN, it didn't happen because of the balance of power and MAD. Do countries not form alliances today by threats, etc.? A few examples. The US was Iraq's ally in the 1980's it's enemy in the 1990's, the mujaheedeen were the US's ally against the USSR in the 1980's and then became enemy number 1 as the Taliban after Sept. 11. Egypt in the 1960's was a Soviet ally, in the 1970's Egypt switched sides to the US. India was aligned with the USSR during the cold war, now it is a friend of the US. I could go on forever, the point is obvious. What exactly has the UN changed? How is this different then the scenarios that you mentioned from the 19th century? The fact is, the major powers like the US, Russia, etc. do whatever they want, secure in the knowledge that they can veto any resolution against them. This is progress?
Post #87,145 by Brandioch 3/10/03 5:56:35 PM Reply	It was meant to be toothless. But it is still having an effect. Yes, there have been wars since. But Bush is having to justify his invasion plans to the rest of the world. The UN won't stop any country from doing whatever it wants. But community opinion does have some bearing. While the US can veto any resolution it does not like, that does not mean it can pass any resolution it wants. Diplomacy instead of war. Even if it has to start only between the nations who can veto your resolution.
Post #87,147 by jake123 3/10/03 6:04:29 PM Reply	Yes. Literacy programs, international standards (which body do you think sets the standards that permit the phone systems of many different countries interoperate?), UNICEF, WHO, etc... \r\n\r\n Yes, it has made things better. The security council is only a small part of what the UN does. --\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \r\n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \r\n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #87,188 by a6l6e6x 3/10/03 10:12:04 PM Reply	Also, the Korean conflict in the 1950's. The Soviet Union learned never to skip a Security Council meeting. On the other hand the UN created the pariah of the Middle East - Israel. This was perhaps the civilized world's biggest blunder since the appeasement of Hitler by Neville Chamberlain. Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #87,195 by boxley 3/10/03 10:45:24 PM Reply	aww, think they should all go back to Germany and Poland? wihout Hitler there wouldnt be an Israel. Think about it. Its there. You will have to kill them all man, woman, child to undo it. Good luck. thanx. bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #87,199 by a6l6e6x 3/10/03 10:53:27 PM Reply	Not need to undo, just civilize them. Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #87,201 by boxley 3/10/03 10:55:14 PM Reply	make them share pig ranches with the palestinians and ship the bacon here. That should get them to bond fast enough and help the environment in NC :-). thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #87,202 by a6l6e6x 3/10/03 10:56:56 PM Reply	That works for me! :) Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #87,224 by bluke 3/11/03 2:34:52 AM Reply	Maybe you need to be civilized For you to claim that Israel is the world's biggest problem these days is joke. How many people were killed in Rwanda in the 1990's, millions. How many people were killed in the Iran Iraq war. According to you were the Taliban more civilized then Israel? Saudia Arabia? Iraq? China? The Soveit Union under Stalin?
Post #87,517 by a6l6e6x 3/11/03 11:05:23 PM Reply	Nice list. Israel is ethnic cleansing and killing off Palestinians in slow motion while the threat of nukes keeps fellow Arabs at bay. This is why I say it is the pariah of the Middle East. Immoral, uncivilized behavior! And you wonder why the neighbors hate you? And a perpetual source of instability. Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #87,545 by bluke 3/12/03 2:56:07 AM Reply	When did the Arabs not hate the Jews??? In 1929, the Arabs massacred the Jewish population of Hebron who had been living there for hundreds if not thousands of years, in 1936 there were Arab riots all over killing Jews. In the 1940's the Mufti of Jerusalem and many other Arabs openly supported Hitler. All of this well before the establishment of a Jewish state. In 1967, it wasn't the Jews saying "throw them in the sea".
Post #87,581 by boxley 3/12/03 9:03:01 AM Reply	old saying "A pig may eat a Jew, A Jew cannot eat a pig" It doesnt matter how many Jews Die as long as they dont fight back. Then it is the most horrible thing in the world. An example would be in the US when the black panthers formed. Whitey with the thought of armed black men guarding their own neighborhoods panicked and started anti-gun legislation in California. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #87,231 by bluke 3/11/03 3:11:29 AM Reply	The Korean War is a UN success? Not in my book, the result of the Korean war was an armistice with a Stalinist regime who starves it's own people to buy weapons, which to this day is threatening world peace.
Post #87,594 by a6l6e6x 3/12/03 9:40:20 AM Reply	Ask the South Koreans if it was a success. That was not a war of liberation, it was to make an invasion fail. Perhaps such a UN move would work in Palestine as well. Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #87,197 by deSitter 3/10/03 10:47:10 PM Reply	3 wds - Cuban Missle Crisis Anyone who can't see that the UN helped save the world in this case, is an idiot. -drl
Post #87,200 by boxley 3/10/03 10:53:42 PM Reply	not hardly kennedy rolled on his back waving surrender faster than a 5 dollar crack whore. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux

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