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New Sucks: ATA (America Trans Air)

Digest: Ain't Travelin' ATA. ATA sucks.

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The airline can't make its schedules. They don't care about the\r\npassengers. They screw up, repeatedly, on the same mistakes. These\r\ncost me two days of a weeklong trip -- fortunately my time was somewhat\r\nflexible, but in other circumstances this would have cost far more than\r\nany value saved on airfare.

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The airline's customer service frankly stinks. Customers are not\r\ninformed, are lied to, are rebuffed, and are not given the courtesies\r\nmandated as a minimum gesture when things go wrong. Mistakes are\r\nmade...repeatedly. And the experience appears to be fairly common.

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Asking around with friends and other groups (an alumni list I'm\r\nsubscribed to) reveals that this is very typical behavior.

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[link|http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22america+trans+air%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=0BzL6.222886%24166.4423121%40news1.rdc1.bc.home.com&rnum=6|This\r\nUsenet posting] (a PlanetFeedback article reposted) is very typical\r\nof issues I've heard.

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This is the story of my winter trip to the folks' place, San\r\nFrancisco (SFO) to Chicago (MDW).

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Scheduled dates were 16:55 Dec 17, arriving ~23:00, return Dec 30,\r\nflights 155 & 193, respectively.

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Outbound trip: the flight from Chicago (providing the aircraft for\r\nmy flight) was cancelled for mechanical reasons. As departure was\r\nscheduled for ~14:00 CST, San Francisco operations had approximately\r\nfour hours' advanced notice of problems on the flight. To the airline's\r\ncredit, I was called at home regarding the cancellation, but due to\r\ndistance to the airport and anti-terrorism security measures, I'd long\r\nsince left.

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I arrived at the airport ~15:30. After standing in line for\r\napproximately 30 minutes, word leaked back from the front that the 16:55\r\nflight had been cancelled (there was no general announcement, nor was\r\nthere ground staff informing waiting passengers). Ground staff were, at\r\n16:00, just starting to place passengers on alternate flights. At that\r\npoint, roughly 30 of 180 passengers had been placed.

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ATA like many airlines has a "customer care package", consisting of\r\nairport concession coupons ($10), a prepaid calling card (10 minutes),\r\nand a complaint form. These were not provided until I specifically\r\nasked for same, and weren't distributed until after I'd been placed on\r\nanother flight -- I did return for same.

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As I advanced in line, I was told that there were four seats\r\navailable on a United flight, connecting to Chicago through LAX,\r\narriving at 04:40 (five hours later than my scheduled flight, not to\r\nmention the dead of night). There were also possible seats on a flight\r\nleaving from Oakland. I requested additional information on the Oakland\r\nflight. The ground staffer (Asian male, 20s), flatly refused. I asked\r\nwhy. He said the information wasn't certain.

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Side commentary on tactics: I'd observed several people in line, one\r\na fairly burly guy, looked like he was in sales, who'd just run up about\r\n45 minutes of airtime bellowing at ATA's customer service. Several\r\nother people had berated the ground crew. A way to blow off steam, but\r\nnot particularly effective at changing the situation.

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Those of you you've met me know that I (and my multiple chins) can\r\npresent a certain...presence... I chose this point to raise my voice,\r\ndirecting it so that the other passengers could hear.

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"This is a scheduled commercial flight?"

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"Yes."

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"Then what's the schedule?"

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"We're not certain about it yet."

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"So you're telling us that you may have ten seats on this\r\nflight, which is the part you're not sure about, but you won't tell us\r\nwhat the flight schedule or itenerary are?"

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"Er... Yes.

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"Goddamnit: the only thing you know for certain if\r\nthis is a scheduled flight is the flight times and any stops its making.\r\nGet that information. Now.

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At this point there are several voices of assent from other\r\npassengers. We're winning. He goes to the phone.

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Turns out the Oakland flight is leaving later than the LAX flight,\r\nstops in Vegas, and gets into Chicago later than the other.

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The same twerp then tried to pass up both myself and another\r\npassenger standing near me. Apparently he thought we were travelling\r\ntogether. As he moved down the line to seat other passengers, I pointed\r\nout that he was taking people out of order. Score a seat on the LAX\r\nflight. At this point I also make my demand for discount coupons,\r\netc.

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Several treks across SFO terminals, including an opportunity to use\r\nthe answer "42" to the proselytizers in the free speech booths (third\r\ntime through, the guy looked at me, smiled, and said "Wait a\r\nminute...42". I smiled.

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United's service was impeccable. LAX after 22:00 has no\r\nfoodservice but McDonalds. I'd broken a 13 year string of not eating at\r\nthe chain, but then I owed them a burger for standing down a vendor\r\nwho'd insisted on UCITA conditions a couple years back.

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Return flight: delayed about an hour coming out of Chicago, very\r\nfull flight. I also have to say that my experience with ATA flight\r\ncrews tends to be positive -- it's the airline's operations and\r\norganization which stink.

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Arriving in SFO, I'm literally the first person off the plane (made\r\nup for sitting mashed against the emergency slide covering for 2200\r\nmiles). First sign of trouble is that we're moved to another baggage\r\ncarousel. My first bag shows up on the carousel in a few minutes. My\r\nseatmates' luggage appears and they depart. Then new bags stop showing\r\nup. For fifteen-twenty minutes. Turns out the baggage transport's got\r\njammed. Bags show up. Then stop. Again. For another fifteen-twenty\r\nminutes. After a couple of people walk in to complian, ATA baggage crew\r\nlock the office door.

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I don't secure my luggage until well over an hour after the flight's\r\nlanded. This means that my scheduled airporter back to Napa's come and\r\ngone, and at 23:00, there are no further trips until 6am. This leaves\r\nme stuck at the airport.

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I contact ATA's customer service number and request assistance in\r\ngetting a hotel room for the evening. I explain what I feel is the\r\nairline's fundamental problem (see below). No dice. I find a bench and\r\ncatch up on some reading and a few bits of sleep. Come morning, eggs\r\nand bacon at the cafe in the international terminal, then catch my bus\r\nback to Napa.

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What's the consistent theme of this story: ATA doesn't give a wit\r\nabout its passengers. From landing replacement arrangements for its\r\ncancelled flight to providing information in a timely fashion, to\r\nproviding passengers with the information necessary to make useful\r\ndecisions (what are the alternate flight schedules and iteneraries), to\r\nproviding compensation (you're stuck with an overnight stay or alternate\r\ntransportation arrangements: here's a hotel room / car rental),\r\nthe company just doesn't care.

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I can understand things going wrong. Hell, I work with technology, I\r\nsee things screw up all the time, often on my watch or due to me. And I\r\nscramble my ass to fix them. What I can't understand\r\nis the absolute customer apathy.

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I also had the opportunity to talk with others about my experience.\r\nA neighbor of my parents' going to college in Minnesota had flown ATA a\r\ncouple of times and found it was very nearly faster to drive (my Napa -\r\nLAX leg would have taken less time by ground, delays included). When a\r\nmember of an alumni list asked for recommendations on whether or not she\r\nshould book a flight on ATA. With over 50 responses, some positive, but\r\na large number strongly negative, she decided against the airline.

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Among the comments I made to ATA's customer service rep was that I\r\nrun a moderately influential website and post to a number of online\r\nboards. I can't promise to break the airline, but I'd like to think\r\nI'll cost them more with these posts than putting me up for the night at\r\na recession and dot-bomb desperate SF Airport area hotel would have cost\r\nthe carrier.

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Take your business elsewhere.

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--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New If you substituted Alaska Airlines for ATA
Your post would be entirely accurate for them as well. Thank you for the warning, I was looking at some of their fares. I will not be taking it any further.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New You need to create a website
where you and anyone else that has suffered under a specific company can list all the facts in excrutiating detail. Something like [link|http://www.untied.com|this]. Of course, somebody may have beaten you to it already.
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm|VB/SQL/Tandem resume]
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
New There are a number of those....

"ePinions" comes to mind.

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There are a few general problems.

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First: for joe random website, the content tends to get swamped, and\r\nnobody really owns it. It's hard to tell good posts from others. Some\r\ncompanies have taken to posting their own "astroturf" responses in an\r\neffort to muddy the issue.

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Second: for a given website, the information can be taken down\r\neither on a single or group basis. Spreading something among many sites\r\ntends away from this.

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Third: I've found that the pairing of referencing links (two similar\r\nlinks on different sites), plus email sigs pointing at one or the other,\r\ntends to produce a relatively high Google score. I've been\r\n"Googlebombing" sites in this way for a few years. It's worked quite\r\nwell in general.

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Fourth: Nothing says I can't repost this elsewhere. It's also on my\r\nown website.

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--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Re: Sucks: ATA (America Trans Air)
Bill them for your lost time at full rate. A friend was kept on hold by his bank for some time and billed them for it and was paid.
qts
New They're not the worst, trust me.
America West (aka America Worst) is the absolute worst.

Example case:
Theoretical flight: LAX to Vegas to ORD (O'Hare)
Depart LAX 7:20 am, arrive ORD 3:30pm

Actual flight:
Depart LAX 7:20am, arrive Vegas 8:10am
I noticed when we were descending that the pilot was overworking the controls a bit. Yes, it was windy, but the descent could have been done better by a 10 hour student. We land and are told by customer service that O'Hare is closed due to "wind". Several folks with cell phones call and discover that planes are landing and taking off on time at ORD. I find the AW given reason interesting because I am a student pilot with only a couple of hours. When I get up to the counter I ask, "Exactly how hard is the wind blowing in Chicago?" I'm told "15-20 mph with gusts to 25". I say, "Okay, let's cut out the nonsense shall we? I fly a Cessna 150, I've had about 4 lessons and I, personally, have flown and landed in winds in excess of that." Eventually, I'm sent on a flight to Phoenix, bumped to 1st class and arrive in Chicago at 2am the next day.

The poor bastards in Vegas who didn't know any better had to somehow find rooms for the night ON THEIR OWN and pay for those rooms OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS. That's right, all AW flights from Vegas to Chicago were cancelled for the entire day and the airline didn't offer to put anyone up for the night.

It was only from my bitching and unwillingness to swallow bullshit from the airlines that I got my family back to Chicago when I did.

America Worst - they are as fucked up a company as you can find and not be chaired by William Gates, III. (Aside: yes, they're the airlines with the drunken pilots at the gate)
bcnu,
Mikem

Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
     Sucks: ATA (America Trans Air) - (kmself) - (5)
         If you substituted Alaska Airlines for ATA - (boxley)
         You need to create a website - (lincoln) - (1)
             There are a number of those.... - (kmself)
         Re: Sucks: ATA (America Trans Air) - (qstephens)
         They're not the worst, trust me. - (mmoffitt)

Microphone check, microphone check. Can I get a check-up from the neck up?
45 ms