Post #81,336
2/13/03 12:26:37 AM
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what are the chances everyone would accede to a 501c corp?
register a 501c (non profit corp) with all users from here, sleazyboard and IWE as founders regardless of current posting status. Mission to address any subject matter at hand publicly. All official presentations will have a written pro con statement collaberative by any members and assigned writers by both sides. All opinions and finished product will be voted by the procon blocks. Any position can be posited by any member for group attributable publication wih a 25% vote of members (minimum lobby for the fringe element like me} This effort would completely separate this board from the 501c control so the community as existing would stay this way. (i like it here and want no changes)
We are a group of loud smart people here with differing opinions that should be collectively affecting national and international opinions because we ARE that good. This will provide access to grant monies which is currently wasted on other think tanks and provide employment to our members. All monies raised not spent on bandwith is divided equally after costs. Bandwidth, all the stuff that Alexander pays, any advertising. All grant writing is free only collected funds apply. I want to see Fox news attribute Ashton Browne for accreditation not Al Sharpton.
We can make a difference if our vision ps as large as our imaginations New world? Do it, dont wish it. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #81,370
2/13/03 9:43:06 AM
2/13/03 11:04:41 AM
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I am game... considering events lately...
I am interested in getting something for us to spend on Bandwidth... it's definately a big cost...
Maybe a self-perpetuating hosting service for ourselves. Who knows...
I'd be willing to do alot...
b4k4^2
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds: These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them. "Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #81,374
2/13/03 10:08:23 AM
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Re: Fox News attributing Ashton
The mind boggles.
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo." - E. Dijkstra
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Post #81,379
2/13/03 10:45:26 AM
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LRPD sayeth: Where's my tinfoil hat...?
Alex
"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
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Post #81,382
2/13/03 10:54:49 AM
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Same thing we do every night, Pinky...
... try to take over the world!
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #81,381
2/13/03 10:53:38 AM
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Interesting idea. I'll support it.
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
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Post #81,384
2/13/03 10:59:50 AM
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Ooo, I'd put THAT in my pipe 'n smoke it...
Count me in.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #81,393
2/13/03 11:19:12 AM
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I would help
if I was feeling better and could do something about my signal to noise ratio that my disability causes.
I didn't quite understand all of your post, how is the non profit corp supposed to make money? CNN, Fox, Local Stations, etc pay the corp for reviews or something?
[link|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey| New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
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Post #81,395
2/13/03 11:24:10 AM
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Excellent idea
Getting paid to mouth off? I like it!
How many lives per gallon? --Sign outside of various churches
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Post #81,400
2/13/03 11:32:00 AM
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IANAL, but my understanding is that a 501c . .
. . cannot engage in any form of political lobbying or attempt to influence legislators or legislation.
That would be a difficult restriction for as opinionated a bunch of bastards as hang out here.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #81,406
2/13/03 11:59:37 AM
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that is correct and we wouldnt get labelled partisan
the restriction is against political ads that name candidates, issue ads and publishings are fair game. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #81,402
2/13/03 11:41:30 AM
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I work for a 501c3 and have founded a 501c3/509a1
...so I have *lots* of questions.
For-profit vs non-profit. Why specifically should it be non-profit? To get grant money? Then, what's the purpose of that funding; to what aim does it go? Non-profit is going to be a real stickler about disbursing funds to members. Legal and economic issues will be resolved more easily if staff is separate from board which are both separate from membership. See more below. Keep in mind also that most grants require you to be in organized operation for 3 to 5 years before they'll consider you.
If non-profit, it would be difficult to keep it so, given the political nature of our activites, as I see them anyway. 501c was specifically created in such a way that organizations under it could not influence political races. You can try to rest on the attempt to always present both sides, but 1) we don't *always* disagree, and 2) we often have one-sided conversations.
If that hurdle is crossed, you need to talk about governance. Having every poster here be a founder is too much. You need an oversight body; you need at least three and I would recommend no more than six. Others can and should be members, and should IMO vote in the board, but that is not the same thing. You need a Chairman, a CFO, and at least one more.
Would we be a private foundation or a public charity? I assume private?
If all that is handled, I would strongly recommend we spend a bit of time thrashing out two things, before we incorporated. First, a mission statement; second, by-laws. I can see no reason to delay these until after incorporation, and plenty of reasons to write them before. You don't have to file your 1023 until at least 15 months after organization, and you can get a 12-month extension.
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #81,409
2/13/03 12:06:03 PM
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You convinced me
You can be the chairman.
How many lives per gallon? --Sign outside of various churches
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Post #81,415
2/13/03 12:19:40 PM
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here is how I see the outline
All members here, from sleazyboard and IWE are invited in as founding members. We establish a charter (mission or statement of work) and bylaws that all members can agree on until the noise settles down as well as structure, CFO Chair Board and staff consisting of only Jason, Scott and Wade and Peter at present(I think they are managing things now here). Once we have the above setup we then do the paperwork. We will not be a charity, I am thinking along the lines of thinktank [link|http://www.independentsector.org/pathfinder/resources/think/rand_corp.html|http://www.independe...nk/rand_corp.html] as opposed to sheer political baiting. We could do that also but would need to be a for profit enerprise which means paying taxes and filing tax returns. Jesse doesnt pay taxes on what he gets in the door, why should we? On the other hand if we wanted to be commentators as opposed to researchers we could do that. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #81,440
2/13/03 1:07:53 PM
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Coupla points
1) RAND does far more actual number-crunching than I think we're willing to get into here. But I'm willing to hear otherwise from someone who says, "I *want* to do statistical analysis for this project." Unfortunately for your IRS review letter, you have to allow yourself to be pigeonholed, so if we dodge the political bullet, what are we? Rand says, "RAND Corporation seeks to strengthen the nation's economy, maintain national security, and improve the quality of life in the United States." IOW, they are either gunning for the 501c4 (social welfare org), or they see themselves as charitable 501c3. They declare 501c3 on their docs, btw. "Charitable" includes: - Relief of the poor
- Advancement of education or science
- Lessening the burdens of government
- Elimination of prejudice
- Defense of human or civil rights
So as long as we can show we are formed to be beneficial to the public interest, we would be a charity. You don't have to be a public charity, you can be a private foundation and still be a charitable org. 2) If you normally have gross receipts under $5000/yr, you don't have to file jack and you can call yourself whatever you want. So to me the decision would be between no-income-total-freedom, and high-income-high-responsibility.
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #81,447
2/13/03 1:35:18 PM
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For under $5000/year
We could more than pay for a nice box (amortized over 3 years) and a pipe to put it on. And probably a junket or two. If nothing else, someone should be able to write off the cost of hosting all this. (Nudge ... Jason)
=== Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #81,458
2/13/03 2:04:54 PM
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Note on hosting:
At the end of this month, we will more than likely NOT be hosted at Jason's any longer. The cost is too much for him, and he has other considerations in his life that prevent him from having the time and inclination to continue hosting us.
Just a heads-up. I'm currently working on alternatives with a few people off-line.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #81,451
2/13/03 1:43:24 PM
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If anyone's interested in my sources
Most of the preceding post is from [link|http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf|IRS Pub 557 (PDF)]. Recommend you read it, box, and anyone else who's interested in (perhaps) defining ourselves tax-wise.
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #81,602
2/14/03 1:11:23 AM
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I'm in. And I have a question.
I'll preface w/saying I don't really know what I'm talking about. But, isn't FAIR a 501c? Maybe another subsection, but imho it might be beneficial to see how FAIR is set up.
Just my 2, bcnu, Mikem
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Post #81,685
2/14/03 12:43:41 PM
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I would think so, but Google won't say.
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #81,552
2/13/03 9:35:47 PM
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That raises an interesting point.
Peter and I at least are not US citizens nor US residents and we don't pay US taxes, either. Well, at least I know I don't. :-) I don't know how the Australian Tax Laws work* if I were a member of a foreign board; which means how US corporations laws work for the reverse must also be considered.
Wade.
* actually, I've got a general idea, because I see (and skip) those questions every year on my Tax Return.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #81,562
2/13/03 10:12:39 PM
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Enron did it all the time
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #81,683
2/14/03 12:35:44 PM
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Well, elect not to be on the board then :)
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #81,450
2/13/03 1:42:43 PM
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Fox attributing Ashton?!?
Never happen for 2 reasons:
1) Ashton "doesn't represent the views or opinions of the management of Fox 'news'", and will therefore never find his way onto Murdoch-"owned" airwaves.
2) None of the talking heads at a Fox 'news' station could properly recreate an Ashton quote without stumbling horribly.
;-)
jb4 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." Rich Cook
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Post #81,546
2/13/03 9:15:42 PM
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Now you've pissed off Al Sharpton too!
Hmmm - bucket o'worms or.. pasta?
I appreciate the compliment, but I ain't got the moxie to play with the folks whose staff write up the style sheets, and who have Editors. The little ditty, "the one who represents herself has a fool for a client" applies in spades to us all here. (And my own Muse, alas - isn't so much Erato as Erratica; others here are more consistent -- so I take your 'nomination' to be obv symbolic)
I've known a few [successful] writers who agree that the above applies to writers / editors, as well. These are the unsung, and for many of the famous for being famous - Eds should get equal billing. Editors make or break any wordsmith project, quickly or soon enough. (Notice how often Ed. is mentioned in most prefaces)
Actually we may have a few candidates for Editors about.. just think of the folks who manage to say their piece in 3 or 4 sentences, mostly. A very few can edit their own work well, but my impression is that the very applies.
I'd agree that it sure couldn't hoit to see the commentary of the best of IWE: widely disbursed, esp. given the avge quality of the competition out there. 'Course when things become organized.. then there's that awful 'regular & scheduled' thing that happens. I'm not dwelling on the [-]s but we'd best list, note those.
Who wouldn't like to see HUNDREDS of talented core groups replacing.. 80% 90% of the scripted talking heads we are all inured to by now. We have nothing to lose but.. the creeping dumbth (which is a fact: how many here have ever longed for a return of The Smothers Brothers or Laugh-In? Orig SNL etc. or at least some group with an IQ larger than Britney.) Think we are so special as to be alone in this longing?
Also on the [+] side, clever enough irreverence does fly, we see - esp. if your funding does not require that your infotainment fit demographics of the LCD, and have to please a 'sponsor'.
We post or not-post spontaneously, usually driven or at least catalyzed by the march of events == I think that's all most calyumnists do! Except that: they Must come up with something readable On Deadline.
So best we ponder how not-like those folks we actually are. As to what we might become...? Well, when yer tryin to save a floundering civilization n'stuff - is that enough incentive, along with the family, the cubicle and the occasional crack-pipe break?
Lastly.. Pen-names might be better all around. Lamb liked Elia. HH Munro liked Saki and there are ~ 1.1M other words to choose from. Esp. in the web-era, does one want one's base-handle becoming notorious?
Anyway, a Fun what-if,
Ashton er Klaatu
(Kinda got dibs on Hypatia, for somebody.. have to be somebody bloody Good, though)
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Post #81,569
2/13/03 10:30:57 PM
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obLRPD: I'm sorry, I came here for an argument!
b4k4^2
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds: These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them. "Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #81,573
2/13/03 10:43:08 PM
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Kinky LRPD sez___Drop to the deck and flop like a fish!
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Post #81,577
2/13/03 10:53:46 PM
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Uh, Ashton,,, from "Sponge Bob Square Pants" show on Nick
b4k4^2
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds: These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them. "Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #81,590
2/13/03 11:27:32 PM
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Which is, according to the LRPD:
Powered by genetically engineered cyber-goats!
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #81,618
2/14/03 4:39:39 AM
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Uh uh - just now, Powered by crabby patties!
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Post #81,655
2/14/03 10:52:15 AM
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Home of the hash-slinging slasher!
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #81,598
2/14/03 12:42:54 AM
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Count me in
Not sure about the technicalities, but I'm interested.
Or maybe I'm just jazzed on the Godiva chocolates the editor of a carving magazine sent me for being on the advisory board.
We've got stuff to say. We say it well, at least part of the time. We shoud say it to more than just each other.
Idunno. Think tank, political journal, whatever. Non profit, for profit, each has it's advantages.
One thing, though: non-profit does not mean (as it seems to) the organization can't make any money. It means that profit is not the goal. But the organization can aquire assets and can pay staff.
---- Whatever
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Post #81,638
2/14/03 9:21:09 AM
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ObAOL: Me too
=== Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #81,879
2/15/03 2:28:15 AM
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Questions, comments
I guess my first question is this: what's the problem we're trying\r\nto solve? What does going through the time, trouble, and expense of\r\nincorporation buy us over what we've got as an informal group? \r\n\r\n Regarding 501(c) status, an organization chartered as a forum for\r\ndiscussion and for information dissemination (roughly: zIWT and TWIT),\r\nshould be pretty straightforward. There are lots of such organizations\r\nwhich are involved in political discussion. They have to be careful not\r\nto take official sides in debates. So long as we have people speaking\r\non their own behalf, not the organization, I don't see a major problem.\r\nAdvocating FS in general, with a focus on technology, seems aligned with\r\n501(c) goals as I understand 'em. Note too that I generally\r\ndon't read the political "discussion" here, a term I use\r\nadvisedly as a large part of this appears to be ranting from various\r\nparties. Much of which I don't agree with. Much of which I frankly\r\nfind too unspeakably stupid to deserve response, so take this as my\r\nblanket answer. \r\n\r\n But I come back to why we're doing this: what isn't happening or\r\nisn't happening smoothly currently? I'm all in favor of the minimum\r\nlevel of organization rquired to make things work, and we're about there\r\nat the moment. \r\n
--\r\n Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #81,894
2/15/03 9:34:45 AM
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The idea was not to change here,
as you pointed out it works quite well. The idea was using the assembled talent on a voluntary basis under a different umbrella and move to a paid for advice model(or try to). A research company doing balanced reporting. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org] "France," he noted, "has neither winter nor summer, nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks, it is a fine country." Mark Twain
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Post #81,956
2/15/03 7:05:40 PM
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Small conceptual problem
Much of the er social foribuses here are patterned after the Murican paranoid style of extreme VS extreme, with the occasional Gem of an overview or an actual subtle point, IMnsHO. At worst, we are no 'better' than the execrable McLaughlin Group Loud-mouths (with their token Centrist - and she is often shouted down/interrupted almost instantly).
We have a few who occasionally chime in with a balanced presentation which doesn't assume one or the other pole of the exchanges Must be Nutzo (like both Scotts, for example).
In brief, less'n 'we'-all or most were to somewhat change our style of barbed ripostes towards more of what (the ept) journalist tries to do -- I'd say that there are maybe 15 McL kinds of wallows in sloganeering out there in info-land -- for every one which eschews cant regularly.
Of course.. one could posit that a task of merely parsing (say) a Rush performance, or an evening's worth of talking-head prose - with links to demonstrate the dissembling - could provide a needed Public Service\ufffd. But then how do you take on the 'root' issue: the general stupidity of most utterances by and about pols and their ego-gratifying doggerel [??] (Nobody knows how to kill something so Big, so traditional, and which is also too slimy to grab ahold of, like a fresh trout)
I suspect we lack the discipline to submit lots of our stuff to a reasonableness filter. It's so much more fun to attack the more extreme inferences than root for the modicum of sanity in your average slogan. (Still.. consider the larger audience; 'politics' maybe Is best taken with a certain snidery - accurate analysis is so tedious for the short attention-span majority)
As to the technical.. well Yes: consider the competition (and esp. IW). Were I an underinformed bizness type who wanted some background on Why it is called The Beast - a compilation of all past fora would give enough real meat, refs and explanation to be most useful. Twiki would further elucidate. This, not the socio-political seems our most marketable? accomplishment.
Some of us could also hire out as Prof Shill Detectors and confounders, Billy-Speak translators (esp Andy ;-) and general BS-detectors /disassemblers: a service you'd think that Someone would really want to make use of..
Believe that accomplishing anything in this vein - would need a (at least one) Dedicated-One to organize, do so for the sheer joy of Slaying Popular Falsehoods with a rusty sword with-serrated-edge. Dunno who might have that impetus and tenacity == time available long-term, pretty much unflagging Interest. (In my experience there is always such a One who ends up doing a disproportionate amount of sifting thru garbage and cleaning the can. ie Life is unfair.)
See? THAT's why "The UN sounds like the UN". Daily we see confirmed the wisdom of Ashleigh Brilliant..
In the final analysis everything depends on everything else
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Post #81,958
2/15/03 7:24:56 PM
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yabbut, they get paid better,
was the whole point. It would take someone of an organizational nature, with time, ability and perseverance to startup and there is a person I know in charlotte who we might be able to goat rop^H^H^H^^H^H^H^H^H^H persuede to help in this matter. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org] "France," he noted, "has neither winter nor summer, nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks, it is a fine country." Mark Twain
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