Sorry now I can speak from personal experience

Post #81,035 by boxley 2/11/03 9:48:34 PM Reply	Sorry now I can speak from personal experience Project Manager big 5 accounting type and IBM Frame programmer for 15 years. Project is to replace the Prime Midrange I was the technical specialist for the project. She got the gig because she was a recent CNA and MSCE graduate. At the first meeting she declares how much to replace the wyse terminals with 3270's and rewire for an AS400. It took two weeks and blood on the floor to get the CFO and CEO to understand you have to get the software that runs your business, then ask what platform it runs on. She is screaming at the top of her lungs, "NETWORKS DONT FUCKING WORK NEVER HAVE WORKED AND WONT GO IN HERE!" It wasn until meeting 6 in 2 weeks that I had all the decision makers in the room and asked the payroll person to step in. "How long have you had your network that I put in?" answer 2 years. "Has it ever gone down?" no. I then threw a one foot length of BNC on the table and a 1 ft length of twinax on the table and said " tell me why the twinax is technically superior to the bnc" showing the wires to the money folks. They said start researching for products that do what we do. Chane is abhorrent to the "WE ALWAYS DO THINGS THIS WAY" types. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #81,045 by imric 2/11/03 10:11:42 PM 2/11/03 10:12:17 PM Reply	LINUX DOESNT #@$%& WORK NEVER HAS WORKED AND WONT GO IN HERE is the 'modern' equivalent irrational shriek, no? I'm not trying to paint mainframe folks as saints, or anything - but trying to stereotype them as anti-change control freaks bugs me. Always has. "WE ALWAYS DO THINGS THIS WAY" types exist everywhere. Saying that "this attitude of the Frame folks that caused the PC revolution" paints an unfair picture. THAT is what I was calling you on. Or do you think PC technology would not have become common without this alleged 'Frame 'attitude'? Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric Feb. 11, 2003, 10:12:17 PM EST Expand All History
Post #81,048 by boxley 2/11/03 10:18:59 PM Reply	wether it was the frame IT department or uncaring non technical budget drones it was small departments trying to find a better way to do their jobs and bought pc's off budget that drove the revolution. It will be those folks who doom the pc revolution to a backwater, thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #81,052 by imric 2/11/03 10:23:27 PM Reply	Harkening back to my discussions with Bob, if those departments want those things, they must allocate part of thier own budget to IT or support them wholly by themslves - with NO support FROM IT. I have always been a proponent of heterogenous environments with the tools that get the work done, rather than homogenous 1-size-fits-all monolithic 'solutions'. One must recognize that there ARE other concerns with departments bypassing IT/IS, however... Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #81,054 by boxley 2/11/03 10:26:15 PM Reply	you call those discussions? :-) remember them fondly, even posted (I think). I enjoyed Bob's stuff and responses more than most of the other stuff. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #81,106 by imric 2/12/03 8:37:09 AM Reply	smile Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #81,050 by boxley 2/11/03 10:21:30 PM Reply	Also why is "change management" a dicipline all by itself? Who moved my cheese is a best seller. beats the shit out of me why it should be but it is. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #81,156 by tseliot 2/12/03 12:02:47 PM Reply	Dunno. Because people suck at it? In my experience, the people most desirous of/ready to change are the ones least likely to realize the ripples that change will create. Change management addresses those ripples before they swamp nearby boats. Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
Post #81,162 by orion 2/12/03 12:11:26 PM Reply	Management only needs to be changed when it is bad and bad management can kill a company. Just take a look at Montana Power turning into Touch America. Management, along with Goldman Sachs, decided to turn the company from a Power Utility company into a Telecommunications company without consulting the stockholders or the employees. It now trades for 33 cents on the dollar and lost billions. It went from Bluechip to Dotcom status. Management thought it was a good idea and went with it without telling anyone else or asking permission. My point is that bad management can kill a company slowly by making boneheaded decisions like that. Also trying to keep on good employees is hard if the management is bad. That lawfirm that I worked for has an IT staff of 30 people and in a peroid of 4 years had 35+ people leave or get fired from the IT department. The good talent either walked out the door to find a job elsewhere, or after voicing complaints about management to management (like me) got terminated by something that was made up in a bogus annual review. A big turn-a-round is a good sign of bad management. They got rid of almost everyone except the managers and they still have the same sort of problems there. My point is that bad management can cause key employees to quit or get terminated for bogus reasons. Then they no longer have experienced workers, but newbies trying to find their way around the company. [link\|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey\| New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
Post #81,165 by tseliot 2/12/03 12:14:02 PM Reply	Not sure what that has to do with my point. "Change management" has nothing to do with recommending whether or not to change. Since change is inevitable, it has to do with managing that change to, among other things, avoid unpleasant side-effects. Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
Post #81,226 by Brandioch 2/12/03 4:37:08 PM Reply	We have one woman specifically to handle that. She's the first project manager this company hired. We (this company) need "change management" because, it seems, most people have NO concept of who needs to be informed when there IS a change or how to IMPLEMENT a change or even whether or not a change needs to be TESTED on a NON-PRODUCTION SYSTEM. I am not joking. NONE of this is anything but "common sense" and basic communication / documentation. twiki has been an INCREDIBLE help with this. :)
Post #81,227 by drewk 2/12/03 4:40:00 PM Reply	When did you join my company? We (this company) need "change management" because, it seems, most people have NO concept of who needs to be informed when there IS a change or how to IMPLEMENT a change or even whether or not a change needs to be TESTED on a NON-PRODUCTION SYSTEM. No wait, you don't work here. First we'd have to have a non-production system before we could talk about doing any testing on it. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #81,318 by orion 2/12/03 11:11:35 PM Reply	Sorry my mistake I misread it, I must have skimmed it and thought when you said "change management" you meant to change the management, not whatever it was supposed to be. So what is "change management" anyway, dealing with changes? [link\|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey\| New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
Post #81,344 by Ashton 2/13/03 4:09:50 AM Reply	You've forgotten that entire thread in 'flame' already.
Post #81,537 by orion 2/13/03 8:16:37 PM Reply	I said I couldn't remember it alll and I apparently didn't fully read everything. "Change Management" is a new term to me. I was not sure what it meant besides changing management. [link\|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey\| New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
Post #81,399 by Arkadiy 2/13/03 11:31:48 AM Reply	"Managing" the process of change Anything from deliberately setting the pace of change to making sure it does not destroy the organization to helping people cope with changes. -- We have only 2 things to worry about: That things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.

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