Here's some clever politics...

Post #80,089 by screamer 2/7/03 10:24:02 AM Reply	Here's some clever politics... Read this: [link\|http://www.house.gov/genetaylor/IraqStatement.html\|http://www.house.gov...raqStatement.html] Pretty clever, huh? Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #80,100 by Ashton 2/7/03 10:54:40 AM Reply	Well, let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes - Hypothetical 1: The US is attacked; let's say this time: by other than a gnat - some actual Country - you know, with an army and navy and legislature and stuff, and not a small band of loony nihilists? A chance of real damage to a bunch of US cities and contents. ( That's people.. except when using official military parlance about collateral damage and those other precise accounting terms by which we measure important stuff) The US has assured the world since ~ late '40s: in such an eventuality we will use everything in our arsenal to protect Our Freedom and Security and the Murican Way of Life and [throw in 100 words of select aged buzzwords]. [1] Hypothetical 2: Iraq is attacked. Not by some gnat, but by the biggest baddest Super-Armed Super-Power in the universe. A chance of real damage to a bunch of Iraqi cities and contents. Iraq has assured the world since ~ yesterday and earlier: in such an eventuality we will use everything in our arsenal to protect Our Freedom and Security and the Iraqi Way of Life and [throw in 100 words of aged buzzwords]. Pretty clever, huh? No question which side God is on. [1][We can skip that silly tree-hugger crap about fucking up the entire planet: we don't need no stinkin science to intrude into The Love of Country Which Surpasses All] For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong. H. L. Mencken
Post #80,120 by screamer 2/7/03 12:02:01 PM Reply	Semi personal reply... I truly apologize to you and the group for the "hit and run" I pulled yesterday (and probably today). I am coordinating a data center move, yadayada... My only point, two days ago I went to an orthopedic to schedule surgery on my knee. I had to wait two hours to see him. Two of his fellow doctors were called up that morning (active duty) and had two days to show up. When the gov activates these dudes, it means a couple of weeks... No doubt. I saw this passion play unfold and the US government scripted this months ago and have not deviated one ion from their script. Gentlemen, we are going to war. I have never accepted the theory of a "just" war, as war is simply war and the "justness" determined for centuries to come... Were the Romans "just" in taking Egypt? yadayada yada... At this point, I am going to take a stance behind the men in the military and not give them any grey area to come home to. My personal beliefs are almost irrelevent. I watched a bunch of self serving hedonistic hippycrits call my brother a baby killer, adfuckinghominemnauseum, for serving in Viet Nam. Most of these self serving hedonistic hippycrits are now in the government. Just as the sons of bitches that went to college instead of WWII served up Viet Nam to my brother's generation, just as the self serving hedonistic sons of bitches that went to college and avoided WWI served up WWII to them... See a pattern. Chicken Hawks? "Just" wars? Then there's the poor soldiers that actually fight these things. I'm not going to add insult to injury to the kids currently serving. YMMV... It's a free country, you're just as entitled to your opinion. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #80,159 by Ashton 2/7/03 12:58:14 PM Reply	Nam was unprecedented. We never considered for an instant what! it was that the people there wanted -- also would die to defend. We were such naifs. Now we have earned, cynical-naifs. Imagine the Terrorism of B-52s dwarfing all of WW-II tonnage on that tiny place. It was begun from a bloody academic 'domino-theory' and fed by a McNamara, an odious small man who kept the logistics Looking Good until - we were in there hook, line and sinker. (I almost had a chance to meet him.. at a person's birthday party in Oxford. He was disinvited when the hostess realized she couldn't guarantee his 'security' - fershure not verbal security, via many others attending) All your characterizations above apply - the Men from The Green Table (ballet) gesticulating around that table, sending off the cannon fodder on both 'sides'. Words fail but the dance can reveal. The oafs who jeered at the young conscripts were as ignorant of this process of periodic madness then, as now. It isn't about a soldier's actual ability to refuse an order, not such as we are and such as our deadly euphemisms illustrate we are. He can't - he'll be killed too. As for this time - sorry but, it only computes in $-terms. All we had to do was wait - and should a suicidal Saddam decide to attack (just about anyone) ..if it was a nasty enough raid? We could do what many here would Love to do: use some of those expensive nukes, the pride and joy of Jedi Masters of Destruction Technology. "Nuke from orbit" has replaced "As American as Apple Pie" in the lexicon - had you not noticed? Say it enough times (like the really unconvincing propaganda du jour) and you can't remember when it wasn't said. Support the troops - as ever they are the goats. Jeer at one only after facing self in mirror many times (especially anyone who didn't bother to vote last time). This affair comes straight from the Top: The only groundswell this time is concave, not convex. And the blame is diffuse - a 'loyal opposition' with no guts + a perfect excuse to find any substitute imaginable, to scapegoat for the small band of perps we have been unable to deal with. What country do you assign a cabal to? (We've found a few work-arounds - not including the country of origin of 95% of these attackers. Yet. Wonder why that is?) My father wasn't jeered at - just offed in the final days of WW-II - the perhaps last 'honorable' and unavoidable war. We left that one as ~ the sole functioning industrial base anywhere, for our distance from all of the bombing. Now we have infinitely more 'wealth' to guard, but the bomb has reached River City anyway. Ashcroft raises the 'threat level' to high - just Now. Best get used to that and.. after our Blitzkrieg, what's Higher than high? Ashton
Post #80,129 by JayMehaffey 2/7/03 12:19:45 PM Reply	Got dizzy reading The statements by the President, Vice President, and others in the Administration that their goal is to change the regime in Baghdad have increased the incentive for Saddam Hussein to strike against us. In the previous war, he did not use his chemical and biological weapons against Americans because he knew that the retaliation would be more than he was willing to accept. However, if Hussein is convinced that we are determined to remove him from power, he may decide he has nothing to lose by attacking our nation first. The Bush Administration and Congress have now reached the point where we must decide whether we can allow Saddam Hussein to continue to rule Iraq, knowing that he has the means and the motivation to strike against the United States. We also know that U.N. weapons inspections alone can never provide the security that the citizens of our nation deserve. I completely agree with the CIA\ufffds assessment that the Administration\ufffds determination to remove Hussein from power greatly increases the chances that Iraq will launch terrorist attacks against Americans. With the chances for an Iraqi-sponsored terrorist attack increasing every day, I see no alternative but to approve the use of force to remove Saddam Hussein from power. Think about this for a moment. We must remove Saddam because he is a threat to us. Why is he a threat to us? Because we have already decided to remove him. The whole thing is an argument so circular it made me dizzy. Jay
Post #80,155 by Brandioch 2/7/03 12:51:09 PM Reply	Exactly. If we were NOT going to invade, would he attack us? No. He even asked our PERMISSION before he invaded Kuwait. Now, something FAR WORSE to think about. Saddam has scientists capable of manufacturing chemical agents. Saddam only needs to have them publish the specific instructions for that on various web sites. All the terrorists in the WORLD would then have it.

Welcome to IWETHEY!