Post #7,999
9/8/01 3:47:46 PM
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Pshaw.
There's no such thing as "private" email in the workplace, and these two would have done well to remember that.
At my place of employ, secretaries routinely have unfettered access to their managers mailboxes, for the purpose of filing mail.
-- Peter Shill For Hire
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Post #8,002
9/8/01 5:40:56 PM
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No doubt 'true' for certain valuez
Also no doubt YAN small surrender of ANY idea of there being "personal privacy" in *anything* addressed to, "you, personally". Are you suggesting it's OK that a Corporation may tacitly redefine All Messages as being Corporate (for being on their servers) - or just that it is *currently* de facto for this attitude to prevail?
New legal tag required? <this is a Joke>\ufffd</this is a Joke> This is {personal}= MINE{/personal} Time for new mail service: POP-personal ??
And phone calls on that Corporate phone: no expectation of privacy? (even if an emergency call from home - does 'home' count in the life partially-lived within a Corporate umbilical?)
Remarks made in the Corporate lavatory? Is speech also owned 'at work'? Real Life ceases, then - for (often more than) 8+ hours? And it's OK? OK with you?
Slippery slope - you hardly notice the acceleration til the wind is blowing your hair into your eyes.
A. Baaa baaa == Double-Plus UnGood
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Post #8,014
9/8/01 8:38:16 PM
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Oh come now.
That's a silly position and you know it.
At work, everything you touch and use is *owned by the company*. If the company chooses to allow you to use the telephone system for personal calls, then that's their lookout; however it's worth remembering that telephone calls and email are not equivalent; if the email system goes down, I'm expected to *retrieve the data* from backup, whereas there's no persistent storage on a phone system (unless you take the pathological case of telephone workers like call centre operators and people on full-time helpdesks, where calls are routinely recorded for the purposes of training and anti-litigation ["no sir, our employee most definitely did NOT tell you to pour marmalade into your disk drive"]).
Just as corporate file servers are not a place to stash your private documents, nor is the email system a place to stash your innermost thoughts and feelings, and definitely not those of a salacious nature that you wish to share with your misogynistic buddies.
You will be interested to know, however, that unless stated otherwise, a company cannot monitor email or telephone calls without the employee's permission. At least in the UK - given the current state of US legislation, I'd be surprised if it isn't mandatory.
After all, your employee might be talkin' bout that all important Intellectual Property, right?
The debate on privacy really isn't helped by such muddying of the waters, Ashton.
-- Peter Shill For Hire
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Post #8,020
9/8/01 9:06:43 PM
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WTF are you doing up at this hour?!? Go to bed, Peter! :-)
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Post #8,022
9/8/01 9:13:58 PM
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Speak for yourself, Mr GMT+2 :-)
-- Peter Shill For Hire
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Post #8,025
9/8/01 9:38:39 PM
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Hey.. Reeel time! (I know what he's doin)
(After reading through 'W2K Admin' = so now I Are one ;-)
Tryin to figure out how to dump a working 1000 node NetWare installation into AD.
Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle..
Apologies, Peter - I do appreciate the Nutshell tip; even for my minimal familiarity with NT (it presumes more). I've found some useful hints and.. an OK index. But you gotta go to page 127 for the author's take on: AD. In one sentence (with the O'Reilly bird logo marker) :-\ufffd
It's looking as if ISDN will be their only possibility for a time, so I'm hoping that an old box with IPChains (PM Firewall?) or a nicer one running IPTables? -- as hdwre firewall -- might be the route. (per Pro advice)
Beginning to see how youse guys earn the big-\ufffd
A.
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Post #8,023
9/8/01 9:18:53 PM
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More sensible with the longer version.
As to the necessity of "backing up and restoring" - I'd liken that to the point made by the character in To Play the King, that magnificent satire from your alma mater, acted by the inimitable (Sir!) Ian Richardson (also sent to us heathens in the Colonies!):
When the ex-personal aide of the PM goes to retrieve a missive labelled ~"Eyes Only" Secret, notices it is handed her in a transparent cover (and she remarks on that) - the custodian observes, we avert our eyes!
Ditto re the above process. I don't see that.. noticing how many rights *are* given away through inattention, while it was occurring - is about "muddying the waters". But I concur re the law in UK about such matters; dunno if every US state has such laws on the books. Yet. But even where on the books: successfully suing that employer is hardly a trivial process. Ask.. (was it bconnors at D*ll?) for one kind of test case re Corp power to fabricate/misuse data?
Still, undeniably good as is your advice re content: even the doggerel 'ought' to be protected sans a court order stating, probable cause to suspect misuse of Corp. material. In a sane world.
A.
PS - I really don't see many things being as simple as, "everything you touch and use" definitively covering the myriad matters (some inseparably personal) -- as occur on any business premises. Needn't be a solicitor to create a large list of 'exceptions'.
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Post #8,043
9/9/01 6:33:28 AM
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Come now, come now.
It really depends on company policy. Unless there is a stated policy that the company may monitor Email, and unless (as you mention) there is a condition where secretariies filter Email for their bosses, there is every expectation that "private" email will remain reasonably private, ("Reasonably" means given the realities of computers and technology.)
I suppose things may be different in Britain.
In any case, the lady in question had already resigned from her job. What demonstrable harm was being done? It wasn't as if the lawyer(s) iinvolved were actively discriminating against her on the job.
It was a stupid thing to Email, no doubt, but I don't quite see it as lawsuit fodder... but of course the lawsharks rise to such a thing like Floriida sharks riise to swimmers.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
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Post #8,033
9/9/01 12:22:33 AM
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if you do yer "bit" at work it is company property
our policy is even if you think about it on yer own time the company owns it unless they give you a release as it is outside their business model. As I always tell people dont ever email anything(or post) unless yer willing to let the whole world see it. Frankly I dfont give an evil grin because if I ever go submersible the net will be not be a good way to track moi. thanx, bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them? Randy Wayne White
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Post #8,034
9/9/01 12:25:51 AM
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if you do yer "bit" at work it is company property
our policy is even if you think about it on yer own time the company owns it unless they give you a release as it is outside their business model. As I always tell people dont ever email anything(or post) unless yer willing to let the whole world see it. Frankly I dfont give an evil grin because if I ever go submersible the net will be not be a good way to track moi. thanx, bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them? Randy Wayne White
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