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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Linux Forum / You didn't?
Post #78,164
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
1/30/03 6:42:41 PM
Reply
New You didn't?
Do you >read< what you type?

Guess not.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Post #78,166
by admin
Picture of admin
1/30/03 6:48:18 PM
Reply
New With apologies...
for the time-sucking link hole I am about to present. Read the whole thread, and apply lessons learned. ;-)

[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org/~karsten/IWE-archive/archive/00088425.html|Read me in MY words]...

Link courtesy Karsten; apparently he still owes me a beer.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #78,170
by boxley
1/30/03 6:58:20 PM
Reply
New Ahh, the good ole days
Well Rick is no magic man, so he will have to do. Flame on squeek:-)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

"The Mafia was preferable to the state, because it survived by providing services people actually wanted"
Murray Rothbard
Post #78,204
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
1/30/03 8:41:06 PM
Reply
New Oh dear...
...oh my...

wow...

o0o

you had to bring that up.

Thanks for the refresher.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Post #78,319
by static
1/31/03 5:31:11 AM
Reply
New I have a bad feeling about that...
... so much so I'm not going to follow it! :-)

Besides, I've stopped paying close attention to (ahem) "this" kind of thread. Too much "I said, you said" and attempts to get the last word in... or something.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.
Post #78,255
by rickmoen
Picture of rickmoen
1/30/03 11:36:39 PM
Reply
New Re: You didn't?
bepatient wrote:

Do you >read< what you type? Guess not.

I was actually going to say that it's above you to make shit up and attribute it to me for lack of anything more substantive to say, therefore the more parsimonious and charitable explanation is that you're hopelessly confused and not able to read correctly -- but then I realised that would be wildly optimistic.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com

If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #78,394
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
1/31/03 12:10:33 PM
Reply
New Maybe my universal translator is broken.
my quote

And you defend this position by claiming that noone else seems to know how to do a proper needs assessment...and that most of your customers are idiots.

your quotes

Raises the obvious question, of course, of what functionality the customer's business processes actually call for. As I've already pointed out, rational requirements analysis just doesn't revolve around application dicksize wars. Thus my suggestion that this stuff, which you are now proving to be as fond of as Andrew was, would be better moved to comp.os.*.advocacy, where it was presumably intended to go in the first place.

I went on to say that customers have a tendency, if allowed, to
overdefine and mis-define the requirements. They've gotten used to tool
Foo; their horizons are narrowed; they've gotten used to what's wrong
with it and what it just can't do, and are no longer even aware that
they're working around those things. When asked what is required,
they'll often as not say "something just like like Foo". The
possibility of doing something different or better gets excluded from
discussion.


1st paragraph translation...you decide you need to tell me, without knowledge of what I processes I have seen fulfilled by a particular piece of software....that I am engaging in OS advocacy because I have seen a application that fulfills a particular business process...an application that has no Linux equivalent (at this time). And this is supposed to be translated exactly how? My take on it was exactly what I wrote...that you, without knowledge of the application (obviously), my knowledge of business process analysis nor the business in question...dismiss the need for an ACT! equivalent solution as simple OS advocacy....in other words...you arrogantly assume that I know nothing about this process and and simply engaging in application dicksize wars.

This is NOT saying that the various capabilities in the business process cannot be met by hobbling together functionality from several applications under another OS. I'm certain that, with a little work, it would be possible. Would >that< be a suggestion you make to a SO/HO? Sure we can do that...it'll take us a few months to program and a few thousands of dollars in expense...but we could certainly meet the needs of your process and replace that $199 piece of software.

2nd quote block...I translate as...the customer, left to its own devices, doesn't know what they need. eg...the customer is an idiot.

Now...

Do I >have< to take every line of my post and break it down to match your posts?

You may >think< that you are not saying these things...but damn near everyone here is translating your posts exactly that way.

And with that...I politely bow out of these discussions. They have already gone nowhere...and promise much more of the same in the future.

You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Post #78,476
by rickmoen
Picture of rickmoen
1/31/03 4:29:18 PM
Reply
New Re: Maybe my universal translator is broken.
bepatient wrote:

1st paragraph translation...you decide you need to tell me, without knowledge of what I processes I have seen fulfilled by a particular piece of software....that I am engaging in OS advocacy because I have seen a application that fulfills a particular business process...an application that has no Linux equivalent (at this time). [etc., etc.]

I'm sorry to hear about your utter (but, I suspect, quite willful) supposed lack of comprehension of simple English -- in as much as that is nothing at all like what I wrote -- but that is not really my problem.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com

If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #78,550
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
1/31/03 10:16:10 PM
Reply
New whatever
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     The push to Advanced Server begins - (Andrew Grygus) - (117) - Jan. 28, 2003, 06:41:53 AM EST
         Shrug. - (pwhysall) - (5) - Jan. 28, 2003, 07:26:28 AM EST
             Not a solution for all . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (4) - Jan. 28, 2003, 11:04:38 AM EST
                 It's probably 99% - (kmself) - (3) - Jan. 28, 2003, 01:44:19 PM EST
                     Of course it'll run fine on other distros . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2) - Jan. 28, 2003, 02:08:54 PM EST
                         I have run into the same issues on support contracts - (boxley) - Jan. 28, 2003, 02:39:14 PM EST
                         It's a free market - (kmself) - Jan. 28, 2003, 02:39:43 PM EST
         Re: The push to Advanced Server begins - (rickmoen) - (84) - Jan. 28, 2003, 01:04:05 PM EST
             Re: The push to Advanced Server begins - (Andrew Grygus) - (83) - Jan. 28, 2003, 02:40:35 PM EST
                 Right on, Andrew. - (tseliot) - (22) - Jan. 28, 2003, 04:22:46 PM EST
                     Oh great, here come the cheerleaders - (rickmoen) - (21) - Jan. 28, 2003, 08:52:50 PM EST
                         come on Rick have you ever, never met a client - (boxley) - (4) - Jan. 28, 2003, 09:20:09 PM EST
                             Re: come on Rick have you ever, never met a client - (rickmoen) - (3) - Jan. 28, 2003, 10:26:59 PM EST
                                 Thanks, my point is customers will not stray from - (boxley) - (2) - Jan. 28, 2003, 10:41:25 PM EST
                                     Re: Thanks, my point is customers will not stray from - (rickmoen) - (1) - Jan. 28, 2003, 10:49:10 PM EST
                                         Sorry I think we are badly miscommunicating, forget it -NT - (boxley) - Jan. 28, 2003, 10:54:23 PM EST
                         You're in an alternate reality - (tonytib) - (7) - Jan. 28, 2003, 09:32:52 PM EST
                             Re: You're in an alternate reality - (rickmoen) - (3) - Jan. 28, 2003, 10:41:14 PM EST
                                 No, you keep missing the point - (tonytib) - (1) - Jan. 29, 2003, 12:20:47 AM EST
                                     Re: No, you keep missing the point - (rickmoen) - Jan. 29, 2003, 10:18:09 AM EST
                                 How to intentionally miss a point (new thread) - (drewk) - Jan. 29, 2003, 08:52:34 AM EST
                             Re: You're in an alternate reality - (deSitter) - (2) - Jan. 29, 2003, 05:14:07 AM EST
                                 Vertical market vs horizontal - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Jan. 29, 2003, 05:56:36 AM EST
                                     Nice description. - (static) - Jan. 31, 2003, 05:24:11 AM EST
                         Oh great, here comes the one-man-band. - (tseliot) - (7) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:07:02 PM EST
                             Re: Oh great, here comes the one-man-band. - (rickmoen) - (6) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:43:36 PM EST
                                 Will, should, doesn't matter. - (tseliot) - (5) - Jan. 29, 2003, 04:37:28 PM EST
                                     Re: Will, should, doesn't matter. - (rickmoen) - (4) - Jan. 29, 2003, 05:22:10 PM EST
                                         Small gain, indeed. - (tseliot) - (3) - Jan. 29, 2003, 06:22:28 PM EST
                                             Re: Small gain, indeed. - (rickmoen) - (2) - Jan. 29, 2003, 09:17:50 PM EST
                                                 Apology: - (tseliot) - (1) - Jan. 31, 2003, 12:22:12 AM EST
                                                     Think nothing of it. - (rickmoen) - Jan. 31, 2003, 12:25:31 AM EST
                 Re: The push to Advanced Server begins - (deSitter) - (59) - Jan. 29, 2003, 04:43:35 AM EST
                     Software drive OS selection - (tuberculosis) - (58) - Jan. 29, 2003, 08:09:56 AM EST
                         Total agreement - (tonytib) - (56) - Jan. 29, 2003, 11:25:47 AM EST
                             Re: Total agreement - (rickmoen) - (2) - Jan. 29, 2003, 11:39:11 AM EST
                                 Apple is backing away from Java - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:10:20 PM EST
                                     Re: Apple is backing away from Java - (rickmoen) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:30:29 PM EST
                             The Software Desert - (Andrew Grygus) - (52) - Jan. 29, 2003, 01:20:56 PM EST
                                 Re: The Software Desert - (rickmoen) - (51) - Jan. 29, 2003, 01:54:33 PM EST
                                     It's people like you that do more harm than good - (tonytib) - (2) - Jan. 29, 2003, 02:35:03 PM EST
                                         Re: It's people like you that do more harm than good - (rickmoen) - (1) - Jan. 29, 2003, 02:59:07 PM EST
                                             Nope, you're a troll...or an idiot (can't read, can't answer -NT - (tonytib) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:39:49 PM EST
                                     LDAP? - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:33:49 PM EST
                                         Give it up, he hasn't learned to read yet -NT - (tonytib) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:40:42 PM EST
                                         Well I suppose you could always use Radius for CM - (boxley) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:59:31 PM EST
                                     Well, i's pretty evident . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (43) - Jan. 29, 2003, 04:43:49 PM EST
                                         Re: Well, i's pretty evident . . - (rickmoen) - (42) - Jan. 29, 2003, 05:30:55 PM EST
                                             Lemme second an opinion... - (bepatient) - (33) - Jan. 29, 2003, 06:07:34 PM EST
                                                 Re: Lemme second an opinion... - (rickmoen) - (32) - Jan. 29, 2003, 09:26:09 PM EST
                                                     Generally it is safe to presume . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (18) - Jan. 29, 2003, 10:24:20 PM EST
                                                         Re: Generally it is safe to presume . . . - (rickmoen) - (17) - Jan. 29, 2003, 10:35:34 PM EST
                                                             It's the height of arrogance . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (16) - Jan. 29, 2003, 11:19:08 PM EST
                                                                 Re: It's the height of arrogance . . - (rickmoen) - (15) - Jan. 29, 2003, 11:45:03 PM EST
                                                                     Your ability to descend into absurdity is truly amazing! - (Andrew Grygus) - (14) - Jan. 30, 2003, 12:38:32 AM EST
                                                                         Ow.... - (folkert) - (13) - Jan. 30, 2003, 09:19:06 AM EST
                                                                             Re: Ow.... - (rickmoen) - (12) - Jan. 30, 2003, 03:39:59 PM EST
                                                                                 Simple Question - (deSitter) - (11) - Jan. 30, 2003, 04:29:06 PM EST
                                                                                     Remember to include - (imric) - Jan. 30, 2003, 04:40:15 PM EST
                                                                                     ps. Of course - (imric) - Jan. 30, 2003, 04:42:53 PM EST
                                                                                     call Andrew and get his -NT - (boxley) - (2) - Jan. 30, 2003, 05:00:17 PM EST
                                                                                         OK - (pwhysall) - (1) - Jan. 30, 2003, 05:04:01 PM EST
                                                                                             Sorry, Desit asked for replacement of Great Plains - (boxley) - Jan. 30, 2003, 05:43:43 PM EST
                                                                                     AppGen - (folkert) - (5) - Jan. 30, 2003, 08:50:41 PM EST
                                                                                         Re: AppGen - (deSitter) - (2) - Jan. 30, 2003, 10:01:04 PM EST
                                                                                             Yes... it does work. - (folkert) - Jan. 30, 2003, 10:19:02 PM EST
                                                                                             Give the Gryg a call I am sure he would be willing to answer - (boxley) - Jan. 30, 2003, 10:21:57 PM EST
                                                                                         Appgen Custom Suite . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Jan. 30, 2003, 11:12:46 PM EST
                                                                                             Yes... all three... - (folkert) - Jan. 31, 2003, 12:03:24 AM EST
                                                     Damn, now ACT! is an OS??? - (bepatient) - (12) - Jan. 30, 2003, 06:34:56 AM EST
                                                         Re: Damn, now ACT! is an OS??? - (rickmoen) - (11) - Jan. 30, 2003, 07:28:15 AM EST
                                                             Figured as much. - (bepatient) - (10) - Jan. 30, 2003, 08:07:31 AM EST
                                                                 Re: Figured as much. - (rickmoen) - (9) - Jan. 30, 2003, 03:31:06 PM EST
                                                                     You didn't? - (bepatient) - (8) - Jan. 30, 2003, 06:42:41 PM EST
                                                                         With apologies... - (admin) - (3) - Jan. 30, 2003, 06:48:18 PM EST
                                                                             Ahh, the good ole days - (boxley) - Jan. 30, 2003, 06:58:20 PM EST
                                                                             Oh dear... - (bepatient) - Jan. 30, 2003, 08:41:06 PM EST
                                                                             I have a bad feeling about that... - (static) - Jan. 31, 2003, 05:31:11 AM EST
                                                                         Re: You didn't? - (rickmoen) - (3) - Jan. 30, 2003, 11:36:39 PM EST
                                                                             Maybe my universal translator is broken. - (bepatient) - (2) - Jan. 31, 2003, 12:10:33 PM EST
                                                                                 Re: Maybe my universal translator is broken. - (rickmoen) - (1) - Jan. 31, 2003, 04:29:18 PM EST
                                                                                     whatever -NT - (bepatient) - Jan. 31, 2003, 10:16:10 PM EST
                                             Sorry buddy - can't stick with Windows . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (7) - Jan. 29, 2003, 06:35:52 PM EST
                                                 AppGen... - (folkert) - (2) - Jan. 29, 2003, 07:14:36 PM EST
                                                     My Appgen experience is with . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Jan. 29, 2003, 07:31:15 PM EST
                                                         Yeah... that's the one... - (folkert) - Jan. 29, 2003, 07:49:53 PM EST
                                                 Re: Sorry buddy - can't stick with Windows . . - (rickmoen) - Jan. 29, 2003, 09:31:33 PM EST
                                                 Re: Sorry buddy - can't stick with Windows . . - (deSitter) - (2) - Jan. 31, 2003, 01:08:50 AM EST
                                                     Appgen - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Jan. 31, 2003, 02:10:09 AM EST
                                                         Thanks... I could not have said it better... - (folkert) - Jan. 31, 2003, 07:13:59 AM EST
                                     Did Andrew ask what you used? (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Jan. 30, 2003, 03:47:50 PM EST
                         As to capitalism.. - (deSitter) - Jan. 29, 2003, 03:34:35 PM EST
         The push to Advanced Workstation begins - (folkert) - (9) - Jan. 30, 2003, 09:54:32 PM EST
             Yup, looks like Red Hat is responding to the outcry. - (Andrew Grygus) - (8) - Jan. 30, 2003, 11:26:10 PM EST
                 Re: Yup, looks like Red Hat is responding to the outcry. - (rickmoen) - (7) - Jan. 30, 2003, 11:39:03 PM EST
                     come on squeek, there is a perfectly good flame area - (boxley) - (6) - Jan. 30, 2003, 11:48:13 PM EST
                         Re: come on squeek, there is a perfectly good flame area - (rickmoen) - (5) - Jan. 31, 2003, 12:20:42 AM EST
                             My dear squeek - (boxley) - Jan. 31, 2003, 12:36:19 AM EST
                             Stoop - or just low all the time? - (tuberculosis) - (3) - Jan. 31, 2003, 08:13:03 AM EST
                                 Re: Stoop - or just low all the time? - (rickmoen) - (2) - Jan. 31, 2003, 04:24:27 PM EST
                                     Boy you're a slow learner - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Jan. 31, 2003, 07:41:11 PM EST
                                         Re: Boy you're a slow learner - (rickmoen) - Feb. 1, 2003, 02:04:03 AM EST
         My 2 cents - (broomberg) - (15) - Feb. 1, 2003, 07:33:55 PM EST
             That's why monopoly is so easy. - (Andrew Grygus) - (8) - Feb. 1, 2003, 09:48:29 PM EST
                 Disagree - (broomberg) - (7) - Feb. 2, 2003, 01:35:14 AM EST
                     No, you cannot make a choice and move on. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Feb. 2, 2003, 12:52:56 PM EST
                         Not worthy of a response - (broomberg) - Feb. 2, 2003, 03:42:19 PM EST
                     I don't buy your arguement here Broom... - (folkert) - (3) - Feb. 2, 2003, 02:47:50 PM EST
                         Yes you do - (broomberg) - (2) - Feb. 2, 2003, 03:46:08 PM EST
                             What I mean by tweaking... - (folkert) - (1) - Feb. 2, 2003, 03:55:30 PM EST
                                 See, we DO agree - (broomberg) - Feb. 2, 2003, 04:35:14 PM EST
                     pragmatic vs logical decision - (boxley) - Feb. 2, 2003, 04:36:20 PM EST
             Re: My 2 cents - (rickmoen) - (5) - Feb. 2, 2003, 02:12:47 AM EST
                 Out of context - (broomberg) - (4) - Feb. 3, 2003, 12:02:25 AM EST
                     Re: Out of context - (rickmoen) - (3) - Feb. 3, 2003, 01:37:58 AM EST
                         Missed it again - (broomberg) - (2) - Feb. 3, 2003, 09:05:22 AM EST
                             Now hang on a minit thar buddy... - (folkert) - (1) - Feb. 3, 2003, 11:11:02 AM EST
                                 Sorry, this thread is dead - (broomberg) - Feb. 3, 2003, 12:21:31 PM EST

He’s negotiating with himself, and he’s losing.
135 ms