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New Re: Figured as much.
bepatient wrote:

So, without knowing the need fulfilled by a piece of entrenched software (how do you think it >got< that way)...you've decided that noone else but yourself knows anything about needs analysis and software solutions to match against said needs.

This of course I did not say, either.

All the while linking to something you wrote that says, in essence ...of course you can't compete with Windows >directly<...there's too many applications.

Nor that.

And you defend this position by claiming that noone else seems to know how to do a proper needs assessment...and that most of your customers are idiots.

Nor that.

Point taken on the Linux comment...reading back you've made no such direct claim...only derided anyone for saying the opposite.

Nor that.

You done?

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New You didn't?
Do you >read< what you type?

Guess not.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New With apologies...
for the time-sucking link hole I am about to present. Read the whole thread, and apply lessons learned. ;-)

[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org/~karsten/IWE-archive/archive/00088425.html|Read me in MY words]...

Link courtesy Karsten; apparently he still owes me a beer.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Ahh, the good ole days
Well Rick is no magic man, so he will have to do. Flame on squeek:-)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

"The Mafia was preferable to the state, because it survived by providing services people actually wanted"
Murray Rothbard
New Oh dear...
...oh my...

wow...

o0o

you had to bring that up.

Thanks for the refresher.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New I have a bad feeling about that...
... so much so I'm not going to follow it! :-)

Besides, I've stopped paying close attention to (ahem) "this" kind of thread. Too much "I said, you said" and attempts to get the last word in... or something.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Re: You didn't?
bepatient wrote:

Do you >read< what you type? Guess not.

I was actually going to say that it's above you to make shit up and attribute it to me for lack of anything more substantive to say, therefore the more parsimonious and charitable explanation is that you're hopelessly confused and not able to read correctly -- but then I realised that would be wildly optimistic.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New Maybe my universal translator is broken.
my quote

And you defend this position by claiming that noone else seems to know how to do a proper needs assessment...and that most of your customers are idiots.

your quotes

Raises the obvious question, of course, of what functionality the customer's business processes actually call for. As I've already pointed out, rational requirements analysis just doesn't revolve around application dicksize wars. Thus my suggestion that this stuff, which you are now proving to be as fond of as Andrew was, would be better moved to comp.os.*.advocacy, where it was presumably intended to go in the first place.

I went on to say that customers have a tendency, if allowed, to
overdefine and mis-define the requirements. They've gotten used to tool
Foo; their horizons are narrowed; they've gotten used to what's wrong
with it and what it just can't do, and are no longer even aware that
they're working around those things. When asked what is required,
they'll often as not say "something just like like Foo". The
possibility of doing something different or better gets excluded from
discussion.


1st paragraph translation...you decide you need to tell me, without knowledge of what I processes I have seen fulfilled by a particular piece of software....that I am engaging in OS advocacy because I have seen a application that fulfills a particular business process...an application that has no Linux equivalent (at this time). And this is supposed to be translated exactly how? My take on it was exactly what I wrote...that you, without knowledge of the application (obviously), my knowledge of business process analysis nor the business in question...dismiss the need for an ACT! equivalent solution as simple OS advocacy....in other words...you arrogantly assume that I know nothing about this process and and simply engaging in application dicksize wars.

This is NOT saying that the various capabilities in the business process cannot be met by hobbling together functionality from several applications under another OS. I'm certain that, with a little work, it would be possible. Would >that< be a suggestion you make to a SO/HO? Sure we can do that...it'll take us a few months to program and a few thousands of dollars in expense...but we could certainly meet the needs of your process and replace that $199 piece of software.

2nd quote block...I translate as...the customer, left to its own devices, doesn't know what they need. eg...the customer is an idiot.

Now...

Do I >have< to take every line of my post and break it down to match your posts?

You may >think< that you are not saying these things...but damn near everyone here is translating your posts exactly that way.

And with that...I politely bow out of these discussions. They have already gone nowhere...and promise much more of the same in the future.

You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Re: Maybe my universal translator is broken.
bepatient wrote:

1st paragraph translation...you decide you need to tell me, without knowledge of what I processes I have seen fulfilled by a particular piece of software....that I am engaging in OS advocacy because I have seen a application that fulfills a particular business process...an application that has no Linux equivalent (at this time). [etc., etc.]

I'm sorry to hear about your utter (but, I suspect, quite willful) supposed lack of comprehension of simple English -- in as much as that is nothing at all like what I wrote -- but that is not really my problem.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New whatever
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     The push to Advanced Server begins - (Andrew Grygus) - (117)
         Shrug. - (pwhysall) - (5)
             Not a solution for all . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
                 It's probably 99% - (kmself) - (3)
                     Of course it'll run fine on other distros . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                         I have run into the same issues on support contracts - (boxley)
                         It's a free market - (kmself)
         Re: The push to Advanced Server begins - (rickmoen) - (84)
             Re: The push to Advanced Server begins - (Andrew Grygus) - (83)
                 Right on, Andrew. - (tseliot) - (22)
                     Oh great, here come the cheerleaders - (rickmoen) - (21)
                         come on Rick have you ever, never met a client - (boxley) - (4)
                             Re: come on Rick have you ever, never met a client - (rickmoen) - (3)
                                 Thanks, my point is customers will not stray from - (boxley) - (2)
                                     Re: Thanks, my point is customers will not stray from - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                         Sorry I think we are badly miscommunicating, forget it -NT - (boxley)
                         You're in an alternate reality - (tonytib) - (7)
                             Re: You're in an alternate reality - (rickmoen) - (3)
                                 No, you keep missing the point - (tonytib) - (1)
                                     Re: No, you keep missing the point - (rickmoen)
                                 How to intentionally miss a point (new thread) - (drewk)
                             Re: You're in an alternate reality - (deSitter) - (2)
                                 Vertical market vs horizontal - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                     Nice description. - (static)
                         Oh great, here comes the one-man-band. - (tseliot) - (7)
                             Re: Oh great, here comes the one-man-band. - (rickmoen) - (6)
                                 Will, should, doesn't matter. - (tseliot) - (5)
                                     Re: Will, should, doesn't matter. - (rickmoen) - (4)
                                         Small gain, indeed. - (tseliot) - (3)
                                             Re: Small gain, indeed. - (rickmoen) - (2)
                                                 Apology: - (tseliot) - (1)
                                                     Think nothing of it. - (rickmoen)
                 Re: The push to Advanced Server begins - (deSitter) - (59)
                     Software drive OS selection - (tuberculosis) - (58)
                         Total agreement - (tonytib) - (56)
                             Re: Total agreement - (rickmoen) - (2)
                                 Apple is backing away from Java - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                     Re: Apple is backing away from Java - (rickmoen)
                             The Software Desert - (Andrew Grygus) - (52)
                                 Re: The Software Desert - (rickmoen) - (51)
                                     It's people like you that do more harm than good - (tonytib) - (2)
                                         Re: It's people like you that do more harm than good - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                             Nope, you're a troll...or an idiot (can't read, can't answer -NT - (tonytib)
                                     LDAP? - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                         Give it up, he hasn't learned to read yet -NT - (tonytib)
                                         Well I suppose you could always use Radius for CM - (boxley)
                                     Well, i's pretty evident . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (43)
                                         Re: Well, i's pretty evident . . - (rickmoen) - (42)
                                             Lemme second an opinion... - (bepatient) - (33)
                                                 Re: Lemme second an opinion... - (rickmoen) - (32)
                                                     Generally it is safe to presume . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (18)
                                                         Re: Generally it is safe to presume . . . - (rickmoen) - (17)
                                                             It's the height of arrogance . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (16)
                                                                 Re: It's the height of arrogance . . - (rickmoen) - (15)
                                                                     Your ability to descend into absurdity is truly amazing! - (Andrew Grygus) - (14)
                                                                         Ow.... - (folkert) - (13)
                                                                             Re: Ow.... - (rickmoen) - (12)
                                                                                 Simple Question - (deSitter) - (11)
                                                                                     Remember to include - (imric)
                                                                                     ps. Of course - (imric)
                                                                                     call Andrew and get his -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                         OK - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                             Sorry, Desit asked for replacement of Great Plains - (boxley)
                                                                                     AppGen - (folkert) - (5)
                                                                                         Re: AppGen - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                                                             Yes... it does work. - (folkert)
                                                                                             Give the Gryg a call I am sure he would be willing to answer - (boxley)
                                                                                         Appgen Custom Suite . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                                                             Yes... all three... - (folkert)
                                                     Damn, now ACT! is an OS??? - (bepatient) - (12)
                                                         Re: Damn, now ACT! is an OS??? - (rickmoen) - (11)
                                                             Figured as much. - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                                 Re: Figured as much. - (rickmoen) - (9)
                                                                     You didn't? - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                                         With apologies... - (admin) - (3)
                                                                             Ahh, the good ole days - (boxley)
                                                                             Oh dear... - (bepatient)
                                                                             I have a bad feeling about that... - (static)
                                                                         Re: You didn't? - (rickmoen) - (3)
                                                                             Maybe my universal translator is broken. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                 Re: Maybe my universal translator is broken. - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                                                                     whatever -NT - (bepatient)
                                             Sorry buddy - can't stick with Windows . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (7)
                                                 AppGen... - (folkert) - (2)
                                                     My Appgen experience is with . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                         Yeah... that's the one... - (folkert)
                                                 Re: Sorry buddy - can't stick with Windows . . - (rickmoen)
                                                 Re: Sorry buddy - can't stick with Windows . . - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                     Appgen - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                         Thanks... I could not have said it better... - (folkert)
                                     Did Andrew ask what you used? (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                         As to capitalism.. - (deSitter)
         The push to Advanced Workstation begins - (folkert) - (9)
             Yup, looks like Red Hat is responding to the outcry. - (Andrew Grygus) - (8)
                 Re: Yup, looks like Red Hat is responding to the outcry. - (rickmoen) - (7)
                     come on squeek, there is a perfectly good flame area - (boxley) - (6)
                         Re: come on squeek, there is a perfectly good flame area - (rickmoen) - (5)
                             My dear squeek - (boxley)
                             Stoop - or just low all the time? - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                 Re: Stoop - or just low all the time? - (rickmoen) - (2)
                                     Boy you're a slow learner - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                         Re: Boy you're a slow learner - (rickmoen)
         My 2 cents - (broomberg) - (15)
             That's why monopoly is so easy. - (Andrew Grygus) - (8)
                 Disagree - (broomberg) - (7)
                     No, you cannot make a choice and move on. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                         Not worthy of a response - (broomberg)
                     I don't buy your arguement here Broom... - (folkert) - (3)
                         Yes you do - (broomberg) - (2)
                             What I mean by tweaking... - (folkert) - (1)
                                 See, we DO agree - (broomberg)
                     pragmatic vs logical decision - (boxley)
             Re: My 2 cents - (rickmoen) - (5)
                 Out of context - (broomberg) - (4)
                     Re: Out of context - (rickmoen) - (3)
                         Missed it again - (broomberg) - (2)
                             Now hang on a minit thar buddy... - (folkert) - (1)
                                 Sorry, this thread is dead - (broomberg)

What a bizarre 'field' ... all about 'Information' - and nobody has any you'd trust!
123 ms