Re: You're in an alternate reality

Post #77,678 by rickmoen 1/28/03 10:35:12 PM 1/28/03 10:41:14 PM Reply	Re: You're in an alternate reality tonytib wrote: Most existing small businesses already have an existing software that they use, and it is no trivial matter to change. Speaking of alternate realities, I nowhere suggested that businesses should change software. Besides, for many applications there are no open source alternatives (to give just a few I've researched, solid modeling, PCB layout, and Minitab-like software -- and I'm sure are plenty of other vertical markets are similarly devoid). You seem to be furiously arguing with some imaginary debate opponent, since I wasn't talking about "open source alternatives". Perhaps you should go back and re-read? I was addressing Andrew's rather peculiar assertions about Red Hat Linux and Red Hat Advanced Server. So if the software vendor will not support it, fix bugs, etc, THERE IS NO ONE ELSE YOU CAN TURN TO. Now, you're not only making irrelevant objections, but shouting, as well. What the hell are you talking about, by the way? Fee for service? Isn't that what Andrew does? They have a problem they can't handle, they call him in & pay him. Thank you for making my point for me. In the same sense, Red Hat Software releases don't suddenly become unmaintainable just because somebody's Red Hat Software, Inc. support contract has run out. Sorry, I have no sympathy for people who profess being unable to handle negotiation of contracts for what they want to buy. What does unpatched SQL server bug have to do with ISV's only supporting RH? Sorry, I was in a hurry and busy, was writing quickly, and got two conversations confused. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already. Edited by rickmoen Jan. 28, 2003, 10:41:14 PM EST Re: You're in an alternate reality tonytib wrote: Most existing small businesses already have an existing software that they use, and it is no trivial matter to change. Speaking of alternate realities, I nowhere suggested that businesses should change software. Besides, for many applications there are no open source alternatives (to give just a few I've researched, solid modeling, PCB layout, and Minitab-like software -- and I'm sure are plenty of other vertical markets are similarly devoid). You seem to be furiously arguing with some imaginary debate opponent, since I wasn't talking about "open source alternatives". Perhaps you should go back and re-read? I was addressing Andrew's rather peculiar assertions about Red Hat Linux and Red Hat Advanced Server. So if the software vendor will not support it, fix bugs, etc, THERE IS NO ONE ELSE YOU CAN TURN TO. Now, you're not only making irrelevant objections, but shouting, as well. What the hell are you talking about, by the way? Fee for service? Isn't that what Andrew does? They have a problem they can't handle, they call him in & pay him. Thank you for making my point for me. In the same sense, Red Hat Software releases don't suddenly become unmaintainable just because somebody's Red Hat Software, Inc. support contract has run out. Sorry, I have no sympathy for people who profess being unable to handle negotiation of contracts for what they want to buy. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already. Collapse All History
Post #77,705 by tonytib 1/29/03 12:20:47 AM Reply	No, you keep missing the point RH is becoming "the standard" for small businesses looking for MS alternatives because many ISV's making vertical business apps for Linux ONLY support RH. So, if small biz X runs anything other than RH, they won't get any support from the ISV. Therefore, small biz X will almost certainly likely run RH, because they don't want to pay more for the extra help needed to get ISV app Y running on Debian/SuSE/whatever. Furthermore, even if they did pay the Linux expert to get it working, it wouldn't help them if they had non-Linux related problems with the app, if the ISV won't help unless they're running RH (which can be the case). So another reason to use RH; after all, they're interested in running a business, not making a IT fashion statement. So point #1: for most small businesses, RH is the only logical Linux distro. All the Linux experts in the world won't change this. (Of course, if source is available, then other people could provide support & bug fixes.....but this generally isn't the case). So the small biz now has a choice of running RH supported by RH or supported by someone else. You do have a valid point that others than RH can support RH. However, I suspect RH will increase RHAS sales; the vendor has a lot of built-in advantages. In summary, I'll give you 1/3; I'll give you non-RH support, but you don't address Andrew's gripes about RH's growing dominance, and "the community" / "great unwashed Linux loudmouths" / whatevers inconsistent treatment of RH & its competitors. Tony
Post #77,774 by rickmoen 1/29/03 10:18:09 AM Reply	Re: No, you keep missing the point tonytib wrote: You do have a valid point that others than RH can support RH. Well, thank you for noticing that what I posted, I guess. ...you don't address Andrew's gripes about RH's growing dominance, and "the community" / "great unwashed Linux loudmouths" / whatevers inconsistent treatment of RH & its competitors. I'm not sure what the point is, there. In extreme cases, if some idiot ISV's technical support people say their application is "supported only on Red Hat" and I'm trying to report a bug, I'll just load the most recent RH ISOs onto a spare partition, reboot, replicate the bug, and report it again. Adds about an hour to the process. No RHAS or support contracts needed. Actually, though, about the only situation where just telling the guy that /etc/rh-release says "n.n" when you're actually running Linux-Mandrake doesn't work is Oracle, and, there, the machine needs to be just a dedicated Oracle/RH box that's used for nothing else, anyway. The sheep-like tendency of some ISVs and the tendency of some cretinous firms to cite any excuse to deny customer service is duly noted. But those who don't like "Red Hat's growing dominance" can try instead saying "Actually, I'm running Mandrake, and, if you're unwilling to help me, you're going to lose me as a customer" -- and mean it. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #77,756 by drewk 1/29/03 8:52:34 AM Reply	How to intentionally miss a point (new thread) Created as new thread #77755 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=77755\|How to intentionally miss a point] === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]

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