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New Various reasons why I hate Linux
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(more coherent reasons forthcoming)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
Expand Edited by cwbrenn Sept. 4, 2001, 10:20:36 AM EDT
New iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccccccccccccccccc....................

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New A much clearer explanation
For the past week and a half I've been trying to get my computer to respond to my goddamn hand signals. It's new hardware, but it's still Mandrake 8.0. Now you have to understand that Mandrake 8.0 is what I was using as my IP masquerade/router/file server/print server BEFORE, without any problems.

Only THIS time it's not working. None of the same things I did before really work now.

I suppose the intelligent, rational thing to do would be to hate the specific problems that I'm having, bemoan the utter confusion of it all, and look forward to the day when I can fully understand why Linux does what it does -- but I left rationality about a week ago. Now I fully believe that Linux Torvalds hates me, and has hated me since conception, and that Linux is the masterstroke by which he will drive me into ruin and insanity.

(That's pretty good. I think I'm gonna use it in my next Both Barrels column, which is all about this mess).

I had to replace my botherboard and my CPU because I cooked the processor because my powersupply fan died and the power supply sat not a centimeter from the CPU.

I replaced 'em. That all works now.

I then loaded the VERY SAME CD of Mandrake that I had downloaded from their site onto that PC.

I then wrestled with the fact that I couldn't get my cable modem to work, but after realizing I'd done something stupid, I fixed that.

This was a week ago. I now had a fully functional workstation that could connect to the PC. Great and dandy.

Then I needed to set it up so I could get my OTHER machines to connect to the net as well, so I fire up Mandrakes little IP forwarding utility. Works like a charm.

Ok, THEN I needed to set up the firewall thingy so I don't get used in remote ping attacks, or whatever it someone would want to do with my machine. So I run their tinyfirewall configuration thingy. It sets up the firewall and proceeds to cut off all my other machines from darklord. The other machines still have net access, mind you, but they can neither ping darklord nor access any samba shares.

But wait! I remember what I did last time! There was a configuration script that you modify, and you place your internet ethernet card address (eth0) in the "public" setting, and your local network card (eth1) in the "Trusted" section, and everything starts to work again!

So I go over to /usr/share/Bastille and I find bastille-firewall.cfg, and make the edits. I then type "bastille-netfilter stop" and "bastille-netfilter start"... and nothing happens. The firewall still blocks anything coming in from eth1.

Well, perhaps I'm using the wrong command. If I power down, I think to myself, on boot Mandrake will activate everything fress, sho even if bastille-netfilter isn't the command that changes the configuration scripts, whatever it really is will start 'em up.

So I reboot. Nothing happens, firewall still acting on default settings.

"Huh?" I think to myself. "But, this worked LAST time..."

THEN I learn there's ANOTHER bastille-firewall.cfg script setting in the /etc/Bastille directory, so I go over there, modify THAT, and then type "bastille-netfilter stop" and then "bastille-netfilter start"... and lo and behold, it works! alex and mark ping darklord just fine, samba shares work, samba printing works, all is good with this world...

Then I leave for a while and power down my machines. Then I come back and power up my machines, and ALL NETWORK CONNECTIONS ARE LOST. According tot he Mandrake boot thingy, it can't even START IPV4, much less get lo, eth0 and eth1 doing whatever the hell they need to do.

I have no idea why, though. So after three days of beating my head against the keyboard, on a merry whim I copy the original bastille-firewall.cfg file over the modified one, reboot, and huzzah! It works! Well, it works like it originally did -- no ping, no samba, etc.

ANY change I make to these scripts disables networking on a reboot. ANYTHING. It's as if the Mandrake 8.0 Linux code morphed somehow. I dunno how. It changed while it was sitting on my desk and moved everything around. I can't get this stupid, stupid firewall to do what it's supposed to do. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I've been trying to fix this goddamn thing for so long, I spent most of THREE DAY WEEKEND trying to make it work, and it STILL ISN't FIXED.

So I hate Linux. And Linus did it to me on purpose. He's sitting in California laughing his ass off right now.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Me, I'd just hate Mandrake 8.0....

Waitaminute - I do!

Maybe it's because it's French?

But no! It's because it takes the 'never buy a .0 release' stigma to new heights... Or depths.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New Hate to say it, but.. Y'know what this is like?
... Windoze !!

Remember? make *certain* changes (recall - it's nondeterministic) and until two [some say three] reboots, you aren't Really sorta-sure... it took. For now.









Naaahhhh. Couldn't be that, after kernel-complexity level \ufffd is reached.. everything emulates Billyware..





Could it?
New Nah.
It just shows that anything can be screwed up, with enough effort.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New well, it hasn't taken much effort to screw this up
but it's taking more effort than I can muster to fix it. :P
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Who knows
how much effort it took Mandrake's developers/packagers/testers to make 8.0 the... uh... product it is today!

I know that if 8.0 was my first experience with them, it would take a lot of convincing to get me to try thier distro again.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New Yeah.
I actually think that 7.2 was probably the best version of Mandrake I've ever used. Wish I could find those CDs... although, 8.0 and I seem to have come to a truce, so I'm sorta afraid to bother it, you know? :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Aye.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New What causes most of the problems with Linux distros...
Is the fact that they offer so many different ways to do things. My concern in this case is that you used the tinyfirewall configuration first, then tried to alter the firewall with Bastille-firewall. I found when setting up my firewall that different config tools set up thier firewall configurations in different files. This could cause more problems than it solves.

There is a Xwindows program in Mandrake 8.0 that sets up network connection sharing (it's part of the suite of config tools that you find on the desktop) I use this to get the basic setup (which includes setting up a basic firewall) then I just tweek the script file it creates to get the results I want. It takes some delving into IPTABLES, but I think it's worth it to KNOW what you are blocking.

I'd give you more detail, but I'm still waiting for my server (as well as my furnature and most of my conforts of home) to get to my new location.
~~~)-Steven----
New Actually
If you ask Karsten, what causes most of the problems with Linux distros is that they're not Debian...

*rimshot*

<pedant/>
(It's never, ever "XWindows" - it's "X" or "The X Window System" - man X for more details)
--
Peter
Shill For Hire
New That's *not* true

Most GNU/Linux distributions provide an excellent starting point from which to install, and appreciate, Debian. They're not completely worthless.



Edit: typo

--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]

What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Expand Edited by kmself May 12, 2003, 01:42:09 AM EDT
New Re: A much clearer explanation
There are so many complex interdependencies of kernel, scripts, and permissions, not to mention the comparatively trivial issue of software versions, that it's very easy for inexplicable shit like this to happen. After being around UNIX long enough you get a "feeling" for what might be happening, and that allows you to track down the issue. To make matters even more ridiculous, the systems geniuses out there are trying to push "IPv6" - which is really "IPNG" which is really the "ping" program cleverly rearranged and amplified into system stomping alphaware. Aren't those guys clever!!!

You DO realize that the IP filtering function is now inside the kernel distribution? In SuSE you make sure that's turned on (it is in the land yacht kernel that ships with it). The VERY FIRST thing I do with a new version of Linux is rip all the BS out of the kernel by traversing every last option and turning off everything that isn't directly related to my needs and my hardware. I then track down every last error and warning and get rid of them one by one. This is a tedious, time-consuming thing, but it pays off because you can eliminate the kernel as a source of issues, and you get to know all its aspects. If IP won't start, something is badly horked about your configuration.

Doing a firewall should be easy with folkert's scripts. I'd just start over, by minimalizing the kernel and going over /var/log/messages (warn, faillog..) and the output of dmesg until all the warnings and errors are removed.

Note: a lot of issues can hide in the modprobe mechanism. Many problems get solved by properly editing /etc/modules.conf.

-drl
New Whoa. Where did you find this thread?
Man, 2001... I remember this. It launched one of my more successful storylines.

No... must... not... remember... ordeal... must... fight... back... flood... of... painful... memories... nnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Post 8118 was edited
Karsten found a typo.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New So, is anal-compulsive...

...hyphenated?

\r\n\r\n

I was dredging up some old links for my "conquests" archive (see reply to Broomberg above). And found some glaring typos. Which I fixed.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New As opposed to Windows?!?!?
After being around UNIX long enough you get a "feeling" for what might be happening, and that allows you to track down the issue.

As opposed to Windows where strange stuff happens and you have no idea how to track down what's wrong. E.g. I have a Pentium III-500 SCSI Win95B box on Ethernet that is unable to find the TCP/IP network after a while for no apparent reason and no obvious way to figure out what's causing it. At least with UNIX - and Linux - there are ways to figure out what's going on under the covers. With Windows there are hidden tunnels under the sheets that MS doesn't want you snooping around in...

Me: My PC can't find the TCP/IP network after it's been running a while.

MS:
1) Oh, that. Well you need to purchase a service contract before I can talk to you.
2) Oh, that. Well you need to reinstall.
3) Oh, that. Well you need to upgrade to WinXP Pro.
4) Oh, that....

Cheers,
Scott.
New Very True
Even if Windows were internally perfect, the deliberate obscurity would still be a major pain.

(As to the problem - could power management be shutting down the adapter? Second thought - after some interval another computer wins a browser election, and that hoses you because there is a hidden problem with WINS. Set "LM Announce" and "Browse Master" to "Yes".)
-drl
New Answers
1) There's no power management enabled on the PC.
2) It's an Intel Pro/100+ Ethernet adapter. It's on a 100 Mbit lan hooked into a Linsys 10/100 Hub.
3) WINS isn't used. The IP address is correct and is set manually. The DNS addresses are correct and set manually.
4) The PC is on 24/7 for weeks at a time, but the problem doesn't seem to be related to the 40-some-odd-day-uptime-clock-rollover bug in Win9x.

It seems like it loses track of the DNS when the problem happens. Sometimes the problem happens less than 10 minutes after rebooting, but it hasn't happened recently (uptime = 3 days 21 hours+).

"Upgrading" to another version of Windows isn't an option as the PC uses some hardware that doesn't have drivers for newer versions of Windows.

Thanks for your help. See, that wasn't so hard was it? :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Make an LMHOSTS file
Set LM Announce to "Yes" still, but don't worry about the Browse Master.

Old Windows has issues related to WINS/DNS interaction - and by WINS, we mean how Windows resolves NetBIOS names to IP addresses (not just a WINS server).
-drl
New It's just a TCP/IP issue.
Not NetBIOS.

I'll muck around with it later when I get a chance. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Scott.
     Various reasons why I hate Linux - (cwbrenn) - (21)
         iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccccccccccccccccc.................... -NT - (imric)
         A much clearer explanation - (cwbrenn) - (19)
             oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. - (imric)
             Hate to say it, but.. Y'know what this is like? - (Ashton) - (8)
                 Nah. - (imric) - (7)
                     well, it hasn't taken much effort to screw this up - (cwbrenn) - (6)
                         Who knows - (imric) - (2)
                             Yeah. - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                                 Aye. -NT - (imric)
                         What causes most of the problems with Linux distros... - (Steven A S) - (2)
                             Actually - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                 That's *not* true - (kmself)
             Re: A much clearer explanation - (deSitter) - (8)
                 Whoa. Where did you find this thread? - (cwbrenn) - (2)
                     Post 8118 was edited - (SpiceWare) - (1)
                         So, is anal-compulsive... - (kmself)
                 As opposed to Windows?!?!? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                     Very True - (deSitter) - (3)
                         Answers - (Another Scott) - (2)
                             Make an LMHOSTS file - (deSitter) - (1)
                                 It's just a TCP/IP issue. - (Another Scott)

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