Post #75,158
1/17/03 1:42:18 PM
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The case against NASA
[link|http://www.spacedaily.com/news/rlv-03a.html|Biggest waste of taxpayer money since public housing]
Excerpt:
"Through all its vehicle development programs since the Shuttle, NASA's record has been perfect: they've cancelled every one," said Foundation Board Member John Cserep. "We've seen no reason to believe NASA has learned the lessons of its many failed efforts, and every reason to expect that the taxpayers are going to lose billions of more dollars on another fruitless program."
The Foundation called on Congress to demand an explanation of NASA's repeated failures in every attempt to develop a new space vehicle in the last 20 years. In a letter issued this week to the leading members of the space-related Subcommittees in both houses of Congress [see attachment], the Foundation explains its so-far lone opposition to proceeding with OSP until satisfactory answers are forthcoming.
NASA's unbroken string of cancelled vehicle programs stretches back to the Reagan Administration's X-30 NASP, and continued with the X-33, X-34, X-38, 2GRLV and, most recently, the Space Launch Initiative or SLI. The two remaining "X-vehicle" programs \ufffd the X-37 and X-43 \ufffd are both well behind schedule and over budget, making their cancellation likely.
I say:
Well, maybe it's [link|http://amesnews.arc.nasa.gov/releases/2003/03_04AR.html|not all bad]. But seriously, we need major reform. Heads must roll.
I am a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy of one.
Where's Abdul Rahman Yasin?
The reason I don't budge is I'm waiting for you to catch up.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
[link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0PAgM/marlowe//|http://pascal.rockfo...mg0PAgM/marlowe//]
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Post #75,161
1/17/03 1:55:51 PM
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Re: The case against NASA
1) Public housing is only a waste if you're already housed. Yes, the denizens of these places treated them roughly in every city I've visited. Nevertheless, a country that can't even assure all its citizens of a bowl of soup and a place to flop is seriously fucked up.
2) Yes, NASA wastes money - what trivial pittance they get from Sam Scrooge. The larger issue is general stupidity and apathy among pols and the people alike. People lack the imagination that makes exploration a joy, not a chore.
3) The Space Shuttle orbiter, for all its flaws, has proven to be a wonderful piece of engineering. If mated to a capable booster plane, as originally planned, it would have more than fulfilled its promise. As it stands, it more or less an expensive forklift.
4) What we really need is heavy lifting capability. Wait, we had that in the Saturn V, and the Republicans systematically revoked the entire Kennedy vision.
5) NASA is a lot more than space vehicles - they produce a tremendous amount of quality basic engineering research in aerospace, on a ridiculously small budget.
I say:
If not for the stilted imaginations, right-wing obessions, and crippling inferiority complexes of the Marlowes of the world, we'd be on Mars now.
-drl
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Post #75,165
1/17/03 2:04:38 PM
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Wait until New Hong Kong opens up on Mars.
People lack the imagination that makes exploration a joy, not a chore. Worse yet, we have too many Marlowe's in this country. People who can't think unless it is in comparision to someone else. We followed the Russians into space. We rode that wave to the moon. But once we were the first, we stopped caring. When China is making progress on putting a permanent base on Mars, we'll start focusing again.
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Post #75,293
1/17/03 10:45:16 PM
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We do not ever explore for the Joy!
That word is unknown to the Repo mindset, and anathema for the Fundamentalist. The bizness mind is the Babbitt mind. *Shallowness is how you fail at academics and go for the MBA - or phys.ed. Or President.
We 'explore' to be #1 in ____ Exploring, a word not far from exploiting.
Once we Are #1 - forget it. On to the next Exploit... but only IF.. someome else might beat us to It. Whatever the fuck It is/was.
Isn't this a lot like being famous for being famous?
* A friend, teaching Art in a HS some eons ago - sought a requisition to buy a Da Vinci book.. Art/Science, that sort of thing.
The Admin (Principal? I forget) asked:
"Who's this Da Vinki?"
(She explained)
"Well who needs a book by some dead Italian anyway?"
The mission of that school succeeded.
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Post #75,628
1/20/03 10:06:46 AM
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Anathema for the Fundamentalist?
Define your terms. I know many fundies who are very fond of exploring. The fact that it can be done in ways to make a profit is a BONUS for them.
And the fact that you can make a profit on it is a way to get people who would otherwise be uninterested in such an activity to help pay for it.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #75,363
1/18/03 9:13:48 AM
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You're one to talk about stilted imaginations.
When are you gonna stop being Bill Gates' butt boy and run a real browser?
Meanwhile, in other news, anti-missile defense is making progress, thanks to some not-so-stilted imaginations.
I am a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy of one.
Where's Abdul Rahman Yasin?
The reason I don't budge is I'm waiting for you to catch up.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
[link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0PAgM/marlowe//|http://pascal.rockfo...mg0PAgM/marlowe//]
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Post #75,441
1/18/03 6:01:12 PM
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I Know I Know! Pigs will fly up there and eat All the Chaff
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Post #75,552
1/19/03 5:19:43 PM
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My prediction:
After 5 years of such "progress", we still won't see one deployed.
After 10 years of such "progress", we still won't see one deployed.
Marlowe will keep commenting on how much "progress" has been made until he graduates and has to find a real job.
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Post #75,584
1/19/03 8:17:31 PM
8/21/07 6:29:00 AM
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Missile Defense
Didn't work in the Reagan era, and its still not practical.
I went to NM Tech. Home of the US Center for Explosives Technolgy Research, the Navy's Terminal Effects Research Project, and the operations center for the VLA radio telescope. Where do you suppose most of my classmates in physics went to work? Sandia Labs, Los Alamos, various other defense contractors all working on parts of Star Wars.
The amount of fakery that went on even then is astounding (and remains unreported).
Besides which, missiles cost real money and the current crop of have-nots is a decidedly low budget crowd. They're a lot more likely to borrow a freighter and blow it up in Boston Harbor than spend money on expesive rockets. Heck, these guys took out a US Navy warship with some fertilizer and a rubber boat.
Missile defense is a waste of money.
I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.
--Alan Perlis
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