Post #70,308
12/21/02 10:12:55 PM
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Good to hear!
>*This is the nicest and cleanest and most stratght forward network setting up I can ever recall"
Automatic Networking is truly sweet.
Sounds like you have more than enough RAM.
Being able to browse SMB shares (even from Samba servers) is extremely nice.
Basically, there really is a lot to like about OS X, but it really takes some getting used to coming from OS 9. This, I believe, is the biggest hump for most Mac users making the transition.
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
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Post #70,320
12/21/02 11:18:08 PM
12/31/02 8:30:50 PM
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Now have configured Classic for auto start
That means a bit longer start up but when we use the old apps they start at the usual speed.
Wife is cautious but so far is quite happy "as long as it still works like it did before" !!!!
But I have been trying out the Utilities - all I can say is
MICROSOFT eay yer heart out. For once I have a gui env that is so clean & easy to use compared with the constant changing & inconsistent Win GUI
Win is truly s*** compared to OS X - If Apples plan is to put OS X on Intel boxes then the double assault from Apple & Linux (via IBM) will kick MS ass.
My next computer *will* be a Titanium with VPC6 (as I haver lots of Win apps). VPC is a brilliant prod that I have used for years & it does every win thing I want and on an itanium, at an acceptable speed.
Today I am a happy man.
Doug
Corrected goof-up re itanium vs Titanium
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 31, 2002, 08:30:50 PM EST
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Post #70,326
12/21/02 11:33:36 PM
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/icon->apps->utilities->terminal, pull pud in joy!
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
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Post #70,358
12/22/02 9:42:44 AM
12/22/02 9:58:04 AM
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Make sure you get the Developer tools
All the GNU utilities -- gcc, gdb, etc.
Plus Python, Perl, Ruby and Java.
Nice GUI utilities:
Project Builder - basically a front-end for the GNU tools but very slick and fast
Interface Builder - Throw a GUI on top of your command line tools with drag and drop.
MRJAppBuilder - Make your Java apps into clickable OS X application bundles.
Plus tons of other tools (CLI and GUI) all for FREE.
Almost forgot -- grab a copy of Fink ([link|http://fink.sourceforge.net|http://fink.sourceforge.net]) and Fink Commander ([link|http://finkcommander.sourceforge.net|http://finkcommander.sourceforge.net]) for a blast of OSS goodness.
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
Edited by tjsinclair
Dec. 22, 2002, 09:58:04 AM EST
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Post #70,451
12/22/02 10:28:18 PM
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NOW I AM REALLY PISSED OFF !!!!@
Yesterday I went out and bought OS X 10.2 so as to get all the new wunerful features it adds to OS X.
I had checked the Apple website re upgrading.
But when I went to do the update I got a message saying that 10.2 version won't upgrade the version we have (OS X 10.0.3 I think) !!!!!!!
I WANT 10.2 - gimme gimme gimme - why can't I have it <grin>
Anyway - message is that I have to do a clean install & I am assuming this means no more Classic & thus bye-bye to all existing 9.1 software.
My wife's Mac iBook had been set up with 9.1 (I installed it) and I opted for later OS X upgrade (which I did on last Friday).
'
So now the questions ...
1) Why is this so ?
2) Why didn't Apple advise this (I guess I have to ask them that) ?
3) What can be so different between 10.0 & 10.2
4) Does 10.2 support classic and if so how ? (how do you install it ?)
Cheers
Doug
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Post #70,458
12/22/02 11:45:37 PM
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Now, calm down
>message is that I have to do a clean install & I am assuming this means no more Classic & thus bye-bye to all existing 9.1 software.
No, it doesn't. Jaguar actually has three installation choices:
- Upgrade (only useful if you have 10.1.x installed, so never mind this)
- Archive and Install -- this saves off your preferences and such and does a clean install of OS X only -- doesn't touch your System Folder, therefore no change with Classic
- Format and Install -- Pretty much what it sounds like. Wipe the boot drive and install.
At this point I should advise you to upgrade your OS 9 installation if at all possible. I think the latest version is 9.2.2 and newer versions of OS 9 are designed to improve Classic support under OS X.
So, the questions:
>1) Why is this so ?
Not necessarily so, as stated above.
>2) Why didn't Apple advise this (I guess I have to ask them that) ?
Not sure.
>3) What can be so different between 10.0 & 10.2
Don't be fooled by the 'dot' version differences. There is a big difference between 10.0 and 10.1, much less 10.2. I guess Apple is trying to hold on to the '10' designation as long as possible, even though 10.1 and Jaguar are practically whole new versions.
>4) Does 10.2 support classic and if so how ? (how do you install it ?)
Classic is simply whatever OS 9 environment you already have installed. (As stated above, *please* upgrade to 9.2.2 ASAP.)
Hope this helps ease your frustrations.
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
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Post #70,463
12/23/02 12:06:13 AM
12/23/02 3:06:46 AM
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Re: Now, calm down - Thanks for the soothing words <grin>
I am sure you saw the <grin> signs - my message was a way of saying
"OS X is so damned good I want MORE"
Post####2 Update (all text below crosshatches is obsolete - I managed to find all the updates & notes at Apples Mac site - I see I can boot 9.1 - update Frimware 4.2.1, update to 9.2.1 then update to 9.2.2, then can install OS X 10.2 over the top of OS X 10.0 which will leave my OS 9.2.2 intact. #####2
Re upgrading 9.1 I have already installed 10.0 - can I still upgrade the existing 9.1 (I seem to recaqll the docs saying that 9.1 & 10.0 actually co-reside on the disk).
One problem I struck was that it seems I need a bios or rom upgrade to the iBook inorder for FireWire to work under OX X (it used to work before I went to OS X 10.0 & I later found a message at Apple's site re doing a FireWire update prior to switching to OS X.
If needed I am willing to do the whole 9.1 install again just to get back to tors to do the rom upgrade (don't really want to unless have to though).
Cheers Doug
PS many many thanks for your help & experience in dealing with these Mac related issues. I am most appreciative (try to pay back where I can)
PS this post is from Knoppix running under Virtual PC 5.1 on Win2000 - I see that CPC6 for Mac is out. I have VPC5 for Mac but since switching to OS X it hangs when I try to install.
#2 JUST LOCATED A HELP PAGE that explains how to switch boot disks - tonight I will try this out & see if I can boot back to 9.1 see what upgrades I can access (hopefully I can go to 9.2.2 & also upgrade the firewire support) then I may try a re-install of OS X & hopefully it will pick up the new FireWire support & any classic enhancements.
Doug
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 23, 2002, 02:08:21 AM EST
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 23, 2002, 03:06:46 AM EST
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Post #70,477
12/23/02 7:42:55 AM
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Smack - head first into brick wall - have bloody nose
Downloaded Firmware upgrade as per Apple site - tried o apply it - says it doesn't apply (I checked the website carefully)
Downloaded 9.2.1 which is to update 9.1 (9.2.1 is precursor to 9.2.2). But the dear thing tells me part way thru update that "This version of MAC OS cannot be installed over the localized version ... (blah blah)"
I downloaded the International Eng update in the belief that is what I have installed - Apple profiler app tells me I have International Edition 9.1 so I am sure that is the right one.
Hmmm - I don't like MAC OS 9.x - I have got to like OS X if I can only get there.
Cheers
Doug
(Posted via Win98 under VPC5.1 to get past the RESTON Security Service (CIA) who seem to enjoy blocking all my posts to IWE these days - seriously (look at the story in Security forum))
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Post #70,518
12/23/02 12:31:05 PM
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Yeesh
Boy, sometimes things are just harder than they should be, aren't they?
As for OS 9, I'm not wild about it either. I've been full-time in OS X since March of 2001 when 10.0 came out. (In fact, I accidentally nuked my OS 9 system folder when I installed Jaguar and didn't notice its absence for months.)
If you'd like, I can poke around Apple's site and see what I can come up with.
A few questions, though:
What model iBook?
Does Profiler say what version of firmware you already have?
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
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Post #70,611
12/24/02 12:16:53 AM
12/24/02 12:31:10 AM
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Out of pure frustration am starting from scratch
This is bloody painful. The only way I can see of making progress is ...
1) Back up wife's files & mail & the 9.2.1 & 9.2.2 upgrdae files etc: to CD rom file
2) Reinstall 9.1 as a clean install
3) Attempt upgrade to 9.2.1
4) Attempt upgrade to 9.2.2
5) Attempt to install 10.2
Apple just lost a lot of shine in the area of upgrading ease-of-use
Cheers
Doug
PS Machine is
iBook dual-USB FireWire 500Mhz G3 with 10GB HD & 128 b/i RAM + 256MB a/i RAM
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 24, 2002, 12:31:10 AM EST
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Post #70,614
12/24/02 12:42:05 AM
12/24/02 3:39:25 AM
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Brickwalls to the left o me, brickwalls to the right, ...
where's me bazooka, gunna have to fight <grin>.
WELL, I booted from the 9.1 CD that came with the iBook & selected install & clicked on 'clean install' button (assuming this would put a fresh copy of OS 9.1 & wipe other stuff out) & guess what .....
It installed 9.1 over 9.1 & left everything else intact incl 10.0.3 I had there
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I know, I 'll resort to the install image CDs (hmmm but I have a feeling they are near identical to what I have installed now ??? --- ah well, a desperate man will try anything) #3 see below - exactly as I suspected - restored 9.1 & 10.0.3 from the Apple restore disks !!! (heart was at bootom of stomach - now is in boots).
Doug Marker
#2 I spent **3 hours** restoring from the supplied restore CDS then tried upgrading to 9.2.1 but hit exactly the same error message about being unable to update 'localized' version & to use 'clean install' - a right royal f***-up - an installation merry-go-round. Apple installs/upgrades suck !.
#3 The restore restored 9.1 & 10.0.3 - I started up OS X & it said their were upgrades (after I had registered) - then ***tells me I don't have authority to install them *** - The user login that came up never appeared before during either the 9.1 & OS X re-registration I had to perform after the restore - the more time I spend on this the bigger pile of s*** install/upgrade appears to be
But
HAVE found a discussion forum on ezBoard where MAC installs are discussed & there is a MAC specialist in residence - will burden him with my challenges
[link|http://pub4.ezboard.com/bmacnightowlmessageboard|Mac NightOwl]
Cheers D
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 24, 2002, 01:28:02 AM EST
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 24, 2002, 01:34:08 AM EST
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 24, 2002, 02:55:22 AM EST
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 24, 2002, 03:39:25 AM EST
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Post #70,623
12/24/02 3:50:07 AM
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Being a downright persistent sob - I wiped disk & did 10.2
WTF, after approx 3 days effort anything goes
Cheers
Doug
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Post #70,668
12/24/02 11:06:49 AM
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Yikes -- Hope you have better luck
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
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Post #70,681
12/24/02 11:57:18 AM
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Must agree upgrade to 10.2 was a little rocky
For some reason, installations had trouble.
Tip - before installing - run disk first aid a couple times. I had the installer crash on me several times before I cottoned on to this and fixed my disk - then it went well.
FWIW, I haven't fired up classic since going to 10.2. Just don't need it.
I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
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Post #70,719
12/24/02 5:52:41 PM
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Have you considered just going straight to 10.2?
Avoiding the upgrade path entirely, as long as you're having to do a complete install anyway?
The 10.2 upgrade was a bit bumpy for me as well. (Nothing like the problems you're seeing, though, thank goodness.) I ended up backing up my boot partition files and doing a "format and install".
Many people think of Jaguar as a 'dot upgrade' simply because of the version numbers. (This is why so many people were pissed at having to pay for it.) There really is a lot of changes under the hood, down at the system level.
Don't be fooled. It's quite a leap, even from 10.1.
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
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Post #70,728
12/24/02 7:57:52 PM
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10.2 Up and running - I stupidly tried then to install 9.2.1
But of course get nowhere.
10.2 installed ok & I downloaded 100mb of further upgrades.
Have some of my apps working but not all. Trying to install additional apps crashed part way thru.
Cheers Doug
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Post #70,862
12/25/02 11:44:07 PM
12/26/02 12:25:27 AM
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Any ideas ? -since installing 10.2 can't seem to boot CDs ?
#2 UPDATE:
I found that to ensure CD boot, I remove the power lead (run of battery) - then power up or restart - as Soon as I hear chime - hold C key down until grey screen & little mac icon appear. That seems to ensure a CD boot
DSM
*******************************************************************
Had made the decision (at Wife's request) to go back to 9.1 (hopefully then upgrade it to 9.2.2).
I tried booting from the 9.1 install software CD but 10.2 came - up
Tried 9.2.2 disk I have - same thing
Tried booting the restore CD (the ones I used a couple of days back) same thing
The CDs read OK when 10.2 comes up.
The way I boot is to Hold C key down & power on the iBook
I also try Power on & as soon as chime sounds hold down C key until stopped
(in desperation have tried D key (primary part boot key)).
Not sure what 10,2 may have done ???
Cheers
Doug
Edited by dmarker
Dec. 26, 2002, 12:25:27 AM EST
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Post #70,878
12/26/02 1:14:28 AM
12/26/02 1:19:38 AM
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Re: Any ideas ? -since installing 10.2 can't seem to boot CD
Sounds like it has locked the hard drive from installing 9.X over it. You may have to get a MacOS 9.X floppy boot disk and then just reformat the hard drive and then reinstall 9.X or use the floppy boot disk to start the 9.X install. I hope you didn't convert the file system over to something that MacOS 9.X can't work with?
Also maybe [link|http://www.tsmacs.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=16&topic=39|This thread] can help you figure out how to go back to the previous version and finally boot that CD off of your Mac.
Going back to Windows 98 or ME from Windows XP Pro is a bit of a pain as well, I had to reformat my hard drive on the PC because XP Pro turned my VFAT32 partition into a NTFS32 partition. Nasty. But at least the PC allowed me to boot any CD I wanted to, including Linux and others.
For an Alternative Nearly To Imitate IWETHEY please visit [link|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey|the ANTIIWETHEY Board]
providing an alternative to IWETHEY since December 2002
Edited by orion
Dec. 26, 2002, 01:19:38 AM EST
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Post #70,912
12/26/02 10:26:01 AM
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After days of brickwalls - back to 9.1/10.0 - it works ...
Haven't given up on going to
9.2.2/10.2.x But it won't be anytime soon. Wife is willing to accept 10.0 + Classic
Cheers
Doug
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Post #70,963
12/26/02 4:45:40 PM
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You can always go to 9.2 with 10.0
Boot into 9 when you upgrade it - don't try to upgrade from the classic environment.
When installing 10.2 - put it on its own partition, and select either "wipe" or "archive and install".
I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
|
Post #71,003
12/26/02 7:45:53 PM
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Re: You can always go to 9.2 with 10.0
I tried something like this but couldn't get the partition created.
I would appreciate a more detailed step-by-step on how to put 9.2 in from 10.0 I spent at least 1.5 days trying to achieve this. I have 9.21 & 9.2.2 on a non-bootable CD. I have 9.1 on a boot able CD, I have 9.1/10.0 restore disks. I even tried downloading 9.2.1/9.2.2 & applying them from 10.0. The bit here I am not fully clear on is what you mean by partition. I take that to mean splitting the disk in 2 which may be a problem allowing for iys size.
One other issue - I only have a 9.5GB (10GB disk). I looked at changing the HD as I have a spare 20GB & 30GB one but after reading the steps to pull the machine apart (even though I was once an engineer) I wouldn't dare - again wife would kill me if I stuffed-up *her* computer.
Cheers Doug
(This is coming from Netscape 4.7 running under Classic under 10.0.4)
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Post #71,057
12/27/02 3:51:44 AM
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Re: You can always go to 9.2 with 10.0
"I would appreciate a more detailed step-by-step on how to put 9.2 in from 10.0 I spent at least 1.5 days trying to achieve this. I have 9.21 & 9.2.2 on a non-bootable CD. I have 9.1 on a boot able CD, I have 9.1/10.0 restore disks. I even tried downloading 9.2.1/9.2.2 & applying them from 10.0. The bit here I am not fully clear on is what you mean by partition. I take that to mean splitting the disk in 2 which may be a problem allowing for iys size."
You don't need much size for the OS 9 partition - Mine is less than 1.5G. The only thing you are going to put on it is the OS 9 system. On my first WallStreet class laptop I only had a 6G partition - 2 went to OS 9, 4 to OS X - it was OK.
OK - here's my standard OS X install procedure.
1) Backup all personal data. Really do it - because you're going to wipe the disks. Partitioning requires that you wipe the disks. This sucks. But thats life. A borrowed firewire drive is a helpful thing here.
2) Insert latest 10.2 install CD and fire up Disk Utilities. Select the disk drive that is your internal disk - and somewhere or other there is a menu item "Customize" or something like that - I can't remember - but eventually you get this little graphical display that lets you drag lines in a big rectangle to set partition sizes. I make the first partition OSX and the second one OS 9. Be sure the drag the bottom of the lowest box down as far as you can or you'll end up with a chunk of unusable space on your disk. Why this is possible I have no idea. For both volumes, select HFS+ (maybe called MacOS Extended or something) as your format.
3) Click initialize and your disk will be destroyed and recreated like a Phoenix. Exit Disk Utilities.
4) On your rather lame OS 9 Boot Disk Finder desktop you should now see two hard disks with confusing names like Untitled1 and Untitled2. Immediately do a get info on them and rename the smaller something like OS 9 or Classic (what I use) and the other whatever you like (mine is the very imaginative OS X).
5) Install OS 9.2.mumble on the Classic disk. From now on, when upgrading this (9) OS - you should go to SystemDisk Control Panel and boot into this drive. Then upgrade/install/whatever.
6) Insert OS X disk and do a "Reformat and Install" on the OS X disk with OS X 10.2.
7) Optional - Install dev tools on OS X.
I've never tried having both OS's on one volume and I've not had any troubles. I have had many issues trying to keep multiple System Folders around under classic OS and I don't think making one of those systems OS X is likely to help matters any.
Disclaimer - this whole procedure takes about half a day.
I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
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Post #71,162
12/27/02 9:54:20 PM
|
Followed all but 1 step
The one where you say install 9.2.
From Apple I have 9.2.1 & 9.2.2 The instructions are to install the first then update it with the second. The problem I have is how do I get 9.2.1 onto a CD that is itself bootable.
I have the above on a CD but in order to see it I have to *install* 9.1 ! and this has been one of my dilemas.
Today I thought I would try putting 9.2.1 on a Sony Memory stick - booting the 9.1 CD - partitioning the disk as you have advised (I have done that step once ok so am confident to repeat it). Then rather than installing the OS from the 9.1 CD would install 9.2.1 from the mem stick (under normal circumstances I can 'see' the memstick ok - am assuming the CD based OS will see it as well).
I havn't got a firewire disk but do have 2 USB 30GB dirves but these are not seen by MAC OS unless I install thedrivers & these came on a Windows diskette but it is a catch-22 - I have to install an OS, to install the drivers, to install the 9.2.1 OS.
Will advise back if I can resolve this.
Cheers
Doug
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Post #71,195
12/27/02 11:47:02 PM
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Progress report - folloing your approach
Stage 1 - I copied the 9.2.1 Upgrade onto Memstick - booted from Orinal 9.1 Install disk & sure enough it could see memstick. Trying to run upgr failed as usual with can't install over localized copy of 9.1. So I wiped disk clean. Created 2 partitions installed 9.1 on the smaller. & tried upgrading to 9.2.1 *immediately after fresh install of 9.1 on new disk - same as usual - can't install.
I tried another copy of 9.2.1 - same. So decided to leave 9.1 & move on to installing OS X 10.2 on the 2nd partition. 9.1 is installed & working.
Notes
1. Split the disk into 3.5GB HD-OS 9 & 6GB HD-OS X
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Post #71,204
12/28/02 12:27:35 AM
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Just a thought
When I accidentally blew away my OS 9 System Folder on my TiBook, I copied over the System Folder from my G4 Tower and it worked just fine.
I've also seen instances where you copy the System Folder off of an install CD and it seems to work. (any additional hardware drivers can be installed later.)
Tom Sinclair
"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
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Post #71,213
12/28/02 7:09:26 AM
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Thanks to y'all - Now am cooking with gas ...
Have 9.1 installed & everything working better than ever
in sep part
10.2 upgraded to 10.2.3 & everything working as ever I could hope for - don't even need Cllassic now.
iMove is *brilliant* is easier to use than my RaptorDV + ADobe Premier 6.5 gig on my big Win P4. Both iMovies work (they wouldn't before).
Well twas a lot of pain but I now have a lot more confidence in sorting out my wife's problems on her Apple & I *will* be making my next notebook a Titanium - ( even just for iMove).
Cheers & thanks
Doug (PS I also registered with Apple support & asked the Q re 9.1 upgrade)
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Post #71,215
12/28/02 10:51:23 AM
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Apple Support say that the reason for the error mesg is ....
that the two versions don't match - different languages. But - that was the 1st thing I thought of and I checked that (as mentioed way back).
I suspect there may be an installer bug - I will try setting my location to somewhere else (like Australia) rather than HK & see if that is related to the problem.
It seems there is an internal code in Mac OS (i.e. D1 = German, Z1=International English)
I may get to the bottom of that yet - but in the meantime I am at last happy with the set up as is.
Cheers
Doug
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Post #71,227
12/28/02 2:02:58 PM
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Glad to hear it...
Sometimes keeping things seperate is a good thing.
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
[link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | Your friendly Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
[link|http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.html| Wi-Fi Terrorism] comes with an all inclusive
free trip to the local Hoosegow! | | I'll never tell, my *overly-red* lips are sealed! *wink* *wink* |
|
