Microsoft and Security

Post #69,302 by n3jja 12/17/02 11:44:28 AM Reply	Microsoft and Security The [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,767339,00.asp\|Oxymoron] Continues. "In other words, to fix huge security holes in IE, I have to open huge security holes, allowing Microsoft to run arbitrary code on my computer at will," said Terry Roddy, an IE user and software engineer in Evanston, Ill.
Post #69,306 by Yendor 12/17/02 12:16:49 PM Reply	Re: Microsoft and Security "In other words, to fix huge security holes in IE, I have to open huge security holes, allowing Microsoft to run arbitrary code on my computer at will," said Terry Roddy, an IE user and software engineer in Evanston, Ill. Well, yeah. If you've signed on to any recent M$ EULA, you've given them that right anyway. So what's the issue? ;-) -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #69,309 by n3jja 12/17/02 12:46:37 PM Reply	Lean forward and get your bitchslap! ;-)
Post #69,310 by inthane-chan 12/17/02 12:50:20 PM Reply	It's not even that clear cut. Actually, that's only necessary if you want to use their automated update system. You can still download the patches directly from Microsoft's website and apply them yourself if you want to, without opening (additional) security holes. Now, as far as the questionable sanity of applying a closed-source patch that claims to fix a problem... Gimli's Rules for Surviving in Middle Earth #43: When attempting to destroy an artifact, remember to use somebody else's axe.
Post #69,461 by ben_tilly 12/17/02 7:05:11 PM Reply	Wrong The permission that you give is blanket and across the board, even though it is presented as just relating to people who use Windows Update. And has been included in quite a few service packs for various products. Some critical patches (particularly for IE) are only available in service packs that include the noxious terms. Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #69,503 by inthane-chan 12/17/02 9:37:00 PM Reply	Different sections. Yes, I know the EULA sucks. Yes, I know that by the terms of the EULA, MS can basically walk into your computer and do lotsa nasty stuff. I was referring to obtaining the patches themselves - he was complaining that he had to turn down his "security level" in order to retrieve the patches. Don't worry, I haven't gone soft yet... :P Gimli's Rules for Surviving in Middle Earth #43: When attempting to destroy an artifact, remember to use somebody else's axe.
Post #69,326 by andread 12/17/02 1:44:32 PM Reply	Re: Microsoft and Security If you change the security settings on the browser to get the updates (the subject of your quote) then you can change them back afterward -- no real security hole at all, although I leave mine at those levels for easier web browsing and have not had any security issues (that I am aware of) on my home machine and if MS didn't fix these security issues......... how many of these 'security' issues are based on real exploits and how many on theoretical research? A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #69,535 by Andrew Grygus 12/17/02 11:53:21 PM Reply	Theoretical Researchers . . . . have a custom of including with their announcements sample exploit code for use in testing your system and any fixes you apply - so "theoretical research" doesn't stay theoretical very long. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #69,569 by Yendor 12/18/02 3:38:20 AM Reply	Re: Microsoft and Security If you change the security settings on the browser to get the updates (the subject of your quote) then you can change them back afterward -- no real security hole at all[...] That is...if you trust M$ in the first place that they're fixing what they say they're fixing, and that they're not doing anything else besides updating your system when you visit the Win Update Site. Personally, I run Linux and don't worry about it, so I'm not affected. But if you're that trusting, given all that's been shown about their practices...Well, I guess you'll get what you deserve. -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #69,711 by andread 12/18/02 4:29:03 PM Reply	Sensing Deep Paranoia Here really, what would they do and why they are in business to make money also no one else can patch a proprietary OS unless they have the 'secret' code A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #69,751 by Andrew Grygus 12/18/02 6:33:08 PM Reply	Well, a lot of people, including whole governments . . . . . think there's got to be a reason the Department of Justice suddenly dropped antitrust action right after 9/11. They think the U.S. government must have gotten something for that - and Homeland Security does get a hard-on every time they think about gathering information on Amreican citizens . . [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #69,759 by andread 12/18/02 6:56:56 PM Reply	this relates to Windows Update how? Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #69,781 by Andrew Grygus 12/18/02 9:41:38 PM Reply	How the hell do you think they'd distribute it? They can't withdraw all copies of Windows, but they can certainly sneak a few little "improvements" into the updates. You haven't a clue what they've got in there. Notice how aggressive they'ave become in insisting everyone install their updates? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #69,829 by Ashton 12/19/02 7:22:42 AM Reply	Is 98 the last M$-OS for very many, out there? Dunno how anyone could find out more than approximately, but.. Wondering how widespread? growing? is the attitude among the basically-ept, that: W98 is the last M$ thing to be allowed in the house (for personal use that is). Corp-Am is another matter. Yes, I realize that W2K may be an option where matched to certain demanding aps, but with the realization that if one needs >=SP-3 - you'd be screwed. (It's clear too, of course - that the 'average' user still wouldn't have the foggiest notion of why they ought to be concerned at all. Natch.) Ashton When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy. -Paul Richards
Post #69,840 by andread 12/19/02 8:16:57 AM Reply	Really? screwed by SP3?? automatic updates are an option not a requirement A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #69,845 by Yendor 12/19/02 8:23:25 AM Reply	Really. screwed by SP3?? automatic updates are an option[, ]not a requirement Name another product that requires you to sign (or click-wrap) a new EULA that allows the company to access your computer anytime they choose just to allow you access to security updates to fix huge-gaping-drive-a-Hummer-through-'em holes in their products? You know. Like [link\|http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-072.asp\|the one where Windows XP's shell can be attacked by a malicious MP3 file] (thanks Peter.) -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #69,982 by jb4 12/19/02 4:36:29 PM Reply	I vote yes....conditionally Actually, I will put the W2K Problem on my new machine, and patch it to SP2...and stop. For good. (And for the Good of my machine.) Now on the OTHER hard drive on the new screamer, I've got the whole 30G platter reserved for Linux. I'm thinking SuSE 8.2 when it's available...any tips (Linux is not my forte; its not even my mezzo-piano...yet...). jb4 "They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink." Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
Post #69,985 by admin 12/19/02 4:40:56 PM Reply	Start with SuSE, sure. Easy to install, easy to run. When you get the hang of it, switch to Debian. Or, mess around with Knoppix for a while first, then put it on your hard drive. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #70,131 by jb4 12/20/02 2:06:20 PM 12/20/02 2:07:51 PM Reply	Thanks for the Knoppix tip Just read about it somewhere else (the Reg?)...Good idea! And thanx- But tell me, What's the advantage of Debian over SuSE (except perhaps that it's a more "roll-up-yer-sleeves-and-git-yer-fingernails-dirty" brand of Linux)? jb4 "They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink." Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990 Edited by jb4 Dec. 20, 2002, 02:07:51 PM EST Expand All History
Post #70,154 by admin 12/20/02 3:57:21 PM Reply	Debian is harder to configure, easier to install I type 'apt-get install smbfs'. Installed, ready to use. In SuSE, it was a 30-60 minute process. This is one of many examples. The package management and dependency management makes installing New Toys so much easier. WAY easier. You'll want this too: [link\|http://subwiki.honeypot.net/cgi-bin/view/Main/DebianKernelBuilding\|http://subwiki.honey...ianKernelBuilding] Very easy. Too easy, almost. I don't have to really think about installing new things; it just happens. 'apt-get install gcc-3.2' 'apt-get install gkrell' 'apt-get install nvidia-glx' ... you name it, it's easier. SuSE has an automatic update manager in YAST2, but it can't hold a candle to apt-get. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #69,843 by andread 12/19/02 8:20:37 AM Reply	And you're definition of 'it' is? Iwould bet that only a small % of home users ever install anything thru windows update or update their a/v or worry about SPs if I wanted to propagate 'it' I'd use mp3 A who remembers a time when serious political issues did not concern the burning question of which consumer product to use Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #69,847 by Yendor 12/19/02 8:25:50 AM Reply	See above... As posted, [link\|http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-072.asp\|already possible]. -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #69,911 by Andrew Grygus 12/19/02 11:43:15 AM Reply	Home user updates? The home user is important, but not the most important target. Business users are more important (because they have money, and if you have money, the government is interested) and more likely to update, especially for security patches. The bulk of business in the U.S. is small business, without dedicated IT and a propensity to let Microsoft "help" them with things they don't understand. Heavy Internet users are another prime target. Just keep bugging them until they accept the "security updates" to end the bother. Remember, the U.S. Government has assigned Admiral Poindexter the job of creating a data system that records and analyzes every purchase made by anyone in the U.S.. Microsoft is pushing automatic updates very hard now, for everyone. Every time I reload Windows for a client or make any other change that affects Internet Explorer, the next time Explorer is opened it goes directly to Microsoft's update site, regardless of what the assigned home page is. Most people will just say "Yes" to "Always trust Microsoft" and away she goes . . If you can distribute security patches with these automatic updates, you sure as hell can distribute security holes as well. Once again, what did the government get for puting Microsoft in a stronger position than they had before the antitrust case began, so suddenly, right after 9/11? Or, perhaps you believe in the Tooth Fairy. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #69,972 by andread 12/19/02 4:05:19 PM Reply	Post hoc... before 9/11 almost everyone was pretty sure that the gov. would let MS off the hook but to return to other issues business XP corporate versions do not require any interaction w/ MS on install auto-updates are still optional most businesses have firewalls and administrators or is this like one of those hacker movies we all know and love (I always like the part where the guy sits at the keyboard, types about 500 wpm and the screen erupts in a graphic display that any game company would kill for just before he yells 'I'm in') in W2K you have to be an admin to run updates I'm the only XP user at work and am admin so I don't know how that is but I'd suspect it is the same A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #69,983 by Andrew Grygus 12/19/02 4:38:20 PM Reply	Bull, most businesses DO NOT have firewalls and admins. Most businesses (in number, in dollar volume, and in employment) in the U.S. are small businesses. If they have a firewall at all, it's just a little NAT router. Since Microsoft's stuff is browser based and requested from the inside, such a firewall is no protection whatever. We're not talking hackers here, were talking about a vendor who's software agents are within the firewall. Most businesses in the U.S. do not have any IT staff whatever. They generally have one person who knows just enough about Windows to screw it up. Most are getting concerned about the cost of Microsoft's software, but have no intention of going elsewhere. I personally am all the IT staff about 220 such businesses have (about 150 are active (call for my services at least once) in any year). Because I'm "expensive", they don't have me do more than the minimum to keep their systems running. My larger clients (those with over 20 workstations) are little better off than the smaller ones. Very few of my clients even have anyone on staff who understands what a directory is. When asked where they keep their document files, they say "in Word" and are totally mystified that I don't consider this sufficient information. This is typical of most businesses in the U.S.. They have no defense whatever against anything Microsoft wants to do. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #70,029 by andread 12/19/02 8:22:34 PM Reply	good point how about the other points Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #70,132 by jb4 12/20/02 2:10:56 PM Reply	E-fscking-GAD! Very few of my clients even have anyone on staff who understands what a directory is. When asked where they keep their document files, they say "in Word" and are totally mystified that I don't consider this sufficient information. This is typical of most businesses in the U.S.. They have no defense whatever against anything Microsoft wants to do. I had no idea... The state of overall computer literacy for Murican bizniz is really that bad? Egad! Thanks for that disturbing eye-opening look from the trenches...(I think...) jb4 "They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink." Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
Post #70,136 by inthane-chan 12/20/02 2:21:54 PM Reply	Geezis, where the... HELL have you been? I think every single IT worker should spend 1 week/year manning the Helldesk. It will give you a vastly different view of how computers are working for the masses... Gimli's Rules for Surviving in Middle Earth #43: When attempting to destroy an artifact, remember to use somebody else's axe.
Post #70,156 by jb4 12/20/02 4:20:13 PM Reply	Writing embedded systems, thankyewverymuch... ...(and by "embedded systems", I don't mean Micros~1's bastardized version of the term, either. I mean real-time, event-driven systems embedded into lab tools, medical equipment, vending machines, you name it. I don't do IT. (Yeah, I do do Windows apps when I need to. Fortunately, I don't need to very often. With any kind of luck, I can avoid .Nyet, by sticking to embedded, and (soon) Linux app development. I've spent the last year-and-a-half doing QNX development, so I'm on my way...) Does that make me an "ivory-tower intellectual"? Dunno...probably not. It does, however tend to isolate me from those who are completely devoid of knowledge about basic computer concepts (except, of course, for my PHB-manager types, whom I can never seem to avoid no matter what I do...). jb4 "They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink." Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
Post #70,038 by static 12/19/02 9:12:28 PM Reply	So that's when it does it! I run IE rarely on my WinME OEM install* and I haven't yet figured out when it decides it wants to connect to MS instead of the default blank page I setup. So it's to do with changing an IE-related setting, hmm? I've also noticed WMP has no option to "Not check for updates". (Neither does Real Player, BTW.) I wonder how close MS are to Requiring An Internet Connection whilst running Windows... Wade. * shaddup. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #70,047 by inthane-chan 12/19/02 9:37:29 PM Reply	Very.
Post #69,902 by CRConrad 12/19/02 11:31:36 AM Reply	Give it up, guys - I done TOLE you Andy is an MS shill.
Post #69,912 by Andrew Grygus 12/19/02 11:45:22 AM Reply	Well, we know that . . . . but teasing shills is entertaining - and can be informative for lurkers who aven't been exposed to the facts of life. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #69,973 by andread 12/19/02 4:07:07 PM Reply	at least you didn't call me Andrea this time, 'Charlene' Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #70,078 by CRConrad 12/20/02 9:08:01 AM Reply	And at least you didn't try to deny it this time, Andrea.
Post #70,129 by andread 12/20/02 2:02:43 PM Reply	Tell you what Let me reveal a bit of personal info I have never declared any income from MS on my taxes if you have anything the IRS needs to know they'll cut you in for a % A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #70,155 by CRConrad 12/20/02 4:02:57 PM Reply	Only shows, some people are stupid enough to whore for free.
Post #70,239 by andread 12/21/02 12:07:40 PM Reply	Curiouser and curiouser the mindset that believes there is only one side to a question and the other side must be shills, whores (can inferior races be far behing) A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #70,265 by Ashton 12/21/02 5:16:41 PM Reply	Speaking of 'sides' Y'know the visceral reaction to the machinations of Billy, Bally and (bought young) trained barbarian puppies -- didn't occur overnight, nor IMhO is it YAN example of that common phenomenon of the Black/White fallacy in all argument. This had to grow, be nurtured by - an unending series of [later provable] events ranging from the merely scurrilous, unethical behaviour all can see.. on through to the lethality to some, after thier intentional ruination by the aforementioned. [Ed Curry is not the only one] Such a pattern hardly produces precipitous judgment: It is result of a daily growing compendium of atrocious actions. It is secondary that the crap purveyed is also insecure, obeys the laws of indeterminate behaviour and never reaches a state of full functionality.. Those mere technical absurdities are hardly even the main reasons for truly despising this Corporation of thieves of others' lifetime work, this Den of Pirates - currently being exempted from all accordance with Law, simply because we have a Lawless, anti-Constitutional cabal overseeing the country. Temporarily. I hope this clarifies just a tad, some sources of discontent - as you seem to have been living in an isolation ward somewhere. (Yes, all along too - how Do you manage such naive ongoing acceptance of a despicable group of sociopathic misfits?) Ashton to each the Heroes one deserves, I guess.. When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy. -Paul Richards
Post #70,276 by Andrew Grygus 12/21/02 7:00:37 PM Reply	Microsoft's very foundation is theivery. To create their first product, Microsoft's founders stole code (admitedly dumpster diving to get it) and stole computer time to port the code they stole. They put off potential competitors by lying - advertising the product as available even though they'd just begun work. Then they sold a product that was nowhere near ready. When people passed the product around while attempting to get it to actually work, Gates denounced them as "pirates". Microsoft hasn't improved one bit since, and anyone who deals with them gets screwed - if not now, then soon. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #70,323 by static 12/21/02 11:27:26 PM Reply	Unfortunately, Western Business runs that way. I heard the first half of a very well lauded report on Radio National this morning called [link\|http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/\|"Enron, The Musical"] (link will change). I didn't hear them enunciate it this way, but much of the problem with the Enron affair was a lack of ethics and no respect for what the law intended. Sounds a lot like how Microsoft operate, doesn't it? Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #70,330 by tonytib 12/21/02 11:45:35 PM Reply	It goes a lot deeper than that In fact, one can argue that Silicon Valley has been built on a good measure of fraud, including extremely dodgy accounting/fraud, "empires" started on someone else's time, and plenty of dodgy VC activities. One difference with MS, however, is that most of these companies do straighten out as they get older. Tony
Post #70,339 by Andrew Grygus 12/22/02 12:55:30 AM Reply	Western Business in the news runs that way First in the news for fabulous growth and stunning stock performance, credited to it's brilliant and innovative (and very highly paid) managment. Later in the news as the investors find out just how innovatively they've been screwed, and their stock stunningly tanks. Then in the news as innovative management resigns in disgrace, is hauled off to jail, or pulls the ripcord on a golden parachute. Finally in the news as the investment bankers and stock analysts are scolded for complicity, duplicity or dupe-licity. For every one of these there are hundreds of businesses just trying to get along making an honest living without getting crushed by someone else's "brilliant and innovative management". These make very poor material for business news programs and magazines, so you'll never hear of them. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #70,349 by Ashton 12/22/02 7:30:45 AM Reply	Pithy summary; still M$ is different It's a worldwide monument to that progression (though it hasn't come even close to comeuppance - surely among the most undeserved of 'Lucky' Breaks?) M$ is a daily embarrassment to US technological skills, ethics and by inference - stark evidence of the state of dumbth in the US. Can anyone name an entity in any other bizness category - as pervasive, as despised? yet also unscathed: proving that it can thwart the law in toto, buy the US Government - all while still making a shitty set of products! If the topic were cancer: M$ would represent the Primal Carcinoma Cell. An Edsel was just a mediocre car, bit by the ficklesness of (already legendary) tawdry taste. IBM's arrogance and greed was comparable, but their hegemony briefer - and they received market punishment as large as the DOJ's. M$ is irregularly irregular. The suppurating boil surrounded by mere eczema. Ashton When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy. -Paul Richards
Post #70,383 by andread 12/22/02 1:05:57 PM Reply	Nestle Nestl\ufffd, the world's largest coffee company, are demanding millions of dollars from a country where 11 million people are facing famine. Take action to stop this scandal now! Ethiopia is currently experiencing a terrible drought. This crisis has been compounded by the collapse in the global coffee price, which many of you have been helping us campaign on. The Ethiopian government fears this drought could cause the worst famine the country has ever faced. Nestl\ufffd has demanded that Ethiopia pay over $6million in compensation for a company that was nationalised 27 years ago, a company that Nestl\ufffd didn't even own at the time. The $6m represents 0.01% of Nestl\ufffd's turnover last year. But for Ethiopia, $6m would buy food for over a million people for a whole month. Take action now: Click below to send a message to Nestl\ufffd, telling them to drop the claim for $6m from Ethiopia: [link\|http://www.maketradefair.com/spage/english/action14.asp?subcat=1&cat=1&select=1&special=yes\|Click here] forward this email to 15 or more friends, family and colleagues Make your voice count. Join the Big Noise to make trade fair. Thank you very much. Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #70,436 by Ashton 12/22/02 8:21:49 PM Reply	Quite right you are.. I too recall the worldwide boycott eons ago - when this Swiss-based Multinational Slime Org was inducing 3rd world impoverished to use their infant formula - the first few weeks? days? supply was as free as a dope peddler's sample. N. employed white-smocked shills to recommend their Warez, just like the US white-coated pharm-chem shills all along. After the breasts had stopped producing milk: half the 'income' was needed to keep up the habit. So.. they diluted it. So the babies died or would have been better off if - Agreed - they were there before Billy stole his first stuff, told his first 1000 lies - and Nestle remains Bigger and more diverse in nastiness.. My bad. (Nestle has remained on my boycott list since before Walmart was ascending to Worldclass Slime) Ashton (my letter added) When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy. -Paul Richards
Post #70,491 by jbrabeck 12/23/02 9:40:32 AM Reply	Do I dare post... That while doing genealogy research, I found out that the current CEO of Nestle's is a relative? Have't established the direct link, but it looks like (I got this from his father!) that either his grandfather or great uncle was my great great grandfather. Give or take a generation or two. I know he's related, just not quite sure of the exact lineage... [link\|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com\|Joe]
Post #70,510 by jb4 12/23/02 11:20:38 AM Reply	Sorry to hear that... ...but pleased to find out that whatever it is that affects these toads is not genetic. jb4 "They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink." Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
Post #71,002 by CRConrad 12/26/02 7:43:11 PM Reply	Of course you do! So, have you sent your protest yet? Like, maybe it counts for something -- a little bit more than the nothing most of those protest letters probably weigh in his estimation -- if it comes from a second cousin, or whatever it is you are? If I were you, I'd consider saying something to the effect of "Hi! I'm your long-lost cousin, I just found out we're related..." followed, a bit further down, by something about how "... and that makes me SAD, because you're disgracing our good name with this inconscionable corporate greed." But, hey, that's just me. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Actually, I rather like women, and don't particularly care for men, so I don't really mind that women are all completely insane. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=68920\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #70,533 by kmself 12/23/02 3:32:15 PM Reply	Whores are professionals Sluts do it for free. \r\n\r\n This being patiently explained to me some time back by a journo friend in the context of "Thank God we're whores and not sluts", responding to information on the support of a new special section. --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #69,675 by jbrabeck 12/18/02 2:56:57 PM Reply	You're lucky Unless you are only using dial-up access. I wasn't aware of any security issues either (cable modem access) until I received an email informing me that my access would be shut down if I attempted to access certain sites... Found out that someone had hacked my system and was using it to launch attacks. Wiped the drive and locked down the firewall. Now it seems to be safe... [link\|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com\|Joe]
Post #69,712 by andread 12/18/02 4:30:47 PM Reply	Good points we had a similar issue at the radio station but there we run a proxy server which originally was not properly configured I suppose I should break down and get a router/firewall for home but haven't yet A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]

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