what occupation, what palestinian land?

they were supposed to have about 50% of what was called Palestine and religious places were to be under UN control. The city of Jerusalem was to belong to neither the "Jewish" or "Arab" state! The boundaries of the "Arab State" are well described. See link below.

UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (Partition Plan) November 29, 1947:

Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in Part III of this Plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in Parts II and III below.

The Israelis want 100% - The Greater Land of Israel.

Trans-jordan existed before the state of Israel came into existance. The formation of Israel was pretty much a way that Europe tried to atone for its sins over the past 800 years during which anti jewish pogroms became a national sport in almost *all* parts of Europe but particularly Germany & Spain. Some links ...

[link|http://carolinanavy.com/fleet2/f2/zreligion/Islamhall/cas/2551.html|Persecution of Jews in Europe]
[link|http://www.yovel.org/yovel_history_latermedieval.asp|Interesting chronology]

A group of Jews in the 1890s who became known as Zionists - [link|http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/zion.html|(link to history of Zionism)] had been lobbying for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine so the Jews could once again get control of their own destiny. For obvious reasons they had little to no faith in anyone else having their interests at heart, even the US (at that time). Then the second world war Hitler created the 'Jewish Problem' & had a solution this in turn created what was known afterwards as the 'Jewish Question' & Great Britain began to champion the cause of a Jewish homeland. US also began to support the idea where the Zionists had established a solid base of support among American Jews. Jews began moving into the Palestine region throughout the 1st half of the 20th century & the Palestinan Arabs became increasingly alarmed & hostile.

Just before the declaration of the state of Israel, there were three sides all armed to the teeth. The Jews with home made & smuggled guns & bombs - the Arabs with the same and also backed in part by the soon to be formed Jordainian army & other Arabs, - and The UN force (mostly British). Once the state was declared in 1948, the next day was war & Israel lost part of its territory but survived, they also managed to capture some small areas. Terror and mayhem was committed by both sides (e.g. 'Deir Yassien' one of the worst attacks - [link|http://www.pnic.gov.ps/arabic/quds/quds_e_infring1.html|A list of the attacks the budding Israelis carried out on Arab villages]

The Arabs also did similar to the Jews but perhaps not in the numbers the Jews achived against them).
[link|http://pnews.org/art/4art/shofar.shtml|Palestinians blowing up Jews started a long time ago] ----- [link|http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_refugees_jews_why.php|a better history of the massacres of Jews]

Many Arabs panicked after the Deir Yassin massacre & their fear was whipped up by other Arabs esp ther grand mufti of Jerusalem. The fleeing of these Arabs created the 'Palestinan Problem'. Israel closed its borders after the ceasefire & refused to allow any of them to return to their homes. Over time the Palestinans began to adopt terror tactics against the west in order to get attention to their demands for their own homeland and the right to return to Arab lands left behind in the new Israel. War by the Arabs had only led to greater losses to the Jews. This created even more refugees. The occupied lands were those lands the Jews siezed in the 1967 war, from Jordan. In 1973 there was also the 'Yom Kippur' war which was a surprise attack against Israel that nearly succeeded but ended when the US stopped Israel from invading & surrounding the defeated Egyptian army in Egypt.

Subsequently the Jews in an attempt to resolve the Palestinian problem attempted peace with Jordan & Egypt (for which Egypt's PM, Mr Sadat, was assasinated). This was supposed to lead to the setting up of a homeland for the Palestinains but neither side really made it. The Oslo seemed to be the great breakthrough but common hatred & mistrust & the inability to resolve all the issues esp refugees, caused the peace effort to fail. Arafat was mostly to blame for the failure by he and Barak (of Israel) to seal a deal under Clinton's presidency. That really was their best hope. Now it will be a 'peace' forced on the Palestinians by aggressive Jews under Sharon who have no more patience for negotiations. Not a good omen.

***************************************

As bizzare as it sounds, this 'Jewish Question' problem goes right back to the inability of the Romans to control Jewish extremists who resented Romans being in their holy land (now does this story begin to sound in any way familiar ???). The romans after 100s of years of trouble & insurrection decide to wipe out Israel.

After two major (66AD & 132AD) and many minor Jewish revolts the Romans in 70AD went in and sacked Jerusalem & tore down their holy temple. Both then and in 132 AD [link| http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyberessays.com%2FHistory%2F95.htm|(Bar Kochba Revolt}], the Jews that weren't slaughtered in these insurrections were rounded up & in a sort of act of humnity, the Romans dispersed them to all parts of the Roman empire - these Jews became known as part of the great 'Diaspora'. Because of their piety & intensity (special relationship with God) most Jews kept their religion & customs and because of this tended to be persecuted as being different. The Romans also under the Christian church of Saul (St Paul) shifted the blame for the death of Jesus to the Jews which added a religious reason to persecute them.

Mohammud at first regarded the Jews with some respect but in time he developed a hostility to them & was responsible for slaughtering some in a famous incident where he gave a particular group the choice of Allah or death, that subsequently set the scene for the Arab attitude to them (this was pretty odd because they had the same God).

Anyway back to Palestine.

Most people agree that the Palestinains need their own country. The problem is getting there.

Doug Marker

Post #55,245 by boxley 10/7/02 9:24:23 AM Reply	what occupation, what palestinian land? In 1948 Israel was declared a state by the UN the only one declared at that time. Please cite the resolution declaring palestine to be an independant state and not part of the hashemite kingdom of Jordan. Please read the history texts, thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #55,275 by a6l6e6x 10/7/02 11:28:46 AM Reply	But, when Israel was declared a state... they were supposed to have about 50% of what was called Palestine and religious places were to be under UN control. The city of Jerusalem was to belong to neither the "Jewish" or "Arab" state! The boundaries of the "Arab State" are well described. See link below. UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (Partition Plan) November 29, 1947: Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in Part III of this Plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in Parts II and III below. The Israelis want 100% - The Greater Land of Israel. Alex The sun will set without thy assistance. -- The Talmud
Post #55,279 by boxley 10/7/02 11:59:56 AM Reply	back atcher :-) [link\|http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=1431\|Sharon's view] "The most widely accepted myth of Arab propagandists is that Jewish communities (AKA: settlements) in Judea and Samaria (AKA: The West Bank) are an obstacle to peace. The opposite is true: They are a barrier to the final jihad planned by Yasser Arafat and his unholy warriors. Jewish roots are sunk deep in the hill country of Judea and Samaria \ufffd the region\ufffds names from Biblical times until the Jordanian occupation of 1948-1967, when the Hashemite Kingdom renamed the area the West Bank (of the Jordan) to falsify a claim to the land." thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #55,282 by a6l6e6x 10/7/02 12:33:49 PM Reply	The Palestinians are children of Arbraham! So is this then a religious war? The Zionist version of the Crusades? The reference to Hitler is amusing. Please contrast Warsaw ghetto and the "curfew" of 800K Palestinians. Could you imagine what would happen is there were no modern communications in the area. Crematoriums in the Nageb, anyone? Yeh, the swastika (haken-kreuz) is just a cross. Alex The sun will set without thy assistance. -- The Talmud
Post #55,294 by boxley 10/7/02 2:16:56 PM Reply	But they ate the soup ana deals a deal What is happening on the west bank makes it imperative that the Palestinians have a state since no one but themselves really gives a shit if they lived or die, just like the jews. The reference that I understood was the indefensability of the 67 borders. I think thet Israel should pull back unilaterally. The settlers become palestinian citizens or move and the ensuing bloodbath (or not) will give Israel a green light to own all of palestine or have a superior economy with partnerships with the new state, Jordan and lebanon. Time will tell which happens. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #55,276 by dmarker2 10/7/02 11:29:06 AM Reply	Re: Bill's right re partitioning of Palestine Trans-jordan existed before the state of Israel came into existance. The formation of Israel was pretty much a way that Europe tried to atone for its sins over the past 800 years during which anti jewish pogroms became a national sport in almost all parts of Europe but particularly Germany & Spain. Some links ... [link\|http://carolinanavy.com/fleet2/f2/zreligion/Islamhall/cas/2551.html\|Persecution of Jews in Europe] [link\|http://www.yovel.org/yovel_history_latermedieval.asp\|Interesting chronology] A group of Jews in the 1890s who became known as Zionists - [link\|http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/zion.html\|(link to history of Zionism)] had been lobbying for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine so the Jews could once again get control of their own destiny. For obvious reasons they had little to no faith in anyone else having their interests at heart, even the US (at that time). Then the second world war Hitler created the 'Jewish Problem' & had a solution this in turn created what was known afterwards as the 'Jewish Question' & Great Britain began to champion the cause of a Jewish homeland. US also began to support the idea where the Zionists had established a solid base of support among American Jews. Jews began moving into the Palestine region throughout the 1st half of the 20th century & the Palestinan Arabs became increasingly alarmed & hostile. Just before the declaration of the state of Israel, there were three sides all armed to the teeth. The Jews with home made & smuggled guns & bombs - the Arabs with the same and also backed in part by the soon to be formed Jordainian army & other Arabs, - and The UN force (mostly British). Once the state was declared in 1948, the next day was war & Israel lost part of its territory but survived, they also managed to capture some small areas. Terror and mayhem was committed by both sides (e.g. 'Deir Yassien' one of the worst attacks - [link\|http://www.pnic.gov.ps/arabic/quds/quds_e_infring1.html\|A list of the attacks the budding Israelis carried out on Arab villages] The Arabs also did similar to the Jews but perhaps not in the numbers the Jews achived against them). [link\|http://pnews.org/art/4art/shofar.shtml\|Palestinians blowing up Jews started a long time ago] ----- [link\|http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_refugees_jews_why.php\|a better history of the massacres of Jews] Many Arabs panicked after the Deir Yassin massacre & their fear was whipped up by other Arabs esp ther grand mufti of Jerusalem. The fleeing of these Arabs created the 'Palestinan Problem'. Israel closed its borders after the ceasefire & refused to allow any of them to return to their homes. Over time the Palestinans began to adopt terror tactics against the west in order to get attention to their demands for their own homeland and the right to return to Arab lands left behind in the new Israel. War by the Arabs had only led to greater losses to the Jews. This created even more refugees. The occupied lands were those lands the Jews siezed in the 1967 war, from Jordan. In 1973 there was also the 'Yom Kippur' war which was a surprise attack against Israel that nearly succeeded but ended when the US stopped Israel from invading & surrounding the defeated Egyptian army in Egypt. Subsequently the Jews in an attempt to resolve the Palestinian problem attempted peace with Jordan & Egypt (for which Egypt's PM, Mr Sadat, was assasinated). This was supposed to lead to the setting up of a homeland for the Palestinains but neither side really made it. The Oslo seemed to be the great breakthrough but common hatred & mistrust & the inability to resolve all the issues esp refugees, caused the peace effort to fail. Arafat was mostly to blame for the failure by he and Barak (of Israel) to seal a deal under Clinton's presidency. That really was their best hope. Now it will be a 'peace' forced on the Palestinians by aggressive Jews under Sharon who have no more patience for negotiations. Not a good omen. *************************************** As bizzare as it sounds, this 'Jewish Question' problem goes right back to the inability of the Romans to control Jewish extremists who resented Romans being in their holy land (now does this story begin to sound in any way familiar ???). The romans after 100s of years of trouble & insurrection decide to wipe out Israel. After two major (66AD & 132AD) and many minor Jewish revolts the Romans in 70AD went in and sacked Jerusalem & tore down their holy temple. Both then and in 132 AD [link\| http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyberessays.com%2FHistory%2F95.htm\|(Bar Kochba Revolt}], the Jews that weren't slaughtered in these insurrections were rounded up & in a sort of act of humnity, the Romans dispersed them to all parts of the Roman empire - these Jews became known as part of the great 'Diaspora'. Because of their piety & intensity (special relationship with God) most Jews kept their religion & customs and because of this tended to be persecuted as being different. The Romans also under the Christian church of Saul (St Paul) shifted the blame for the death of Jesus to the Jews which added a religious reason to persecute them. Mohammud at first regarded the Jews with some respect but in time he developed a hostility to them & was responsible for slaughtering some in a famous incident where he gave a particular group the choice of Allah or death, that subsequently set the scene for the Arab attitude to them (this was pretty odd because they had the same God). Anyway back to Palestine. Most people agree that the Palestinains need their own country. The problem is getting there. Doug Marker

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