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New OpEd: After the regime change
[link|http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-etzioni100302.asp|Iraq was already broken when we got there]

Excerpt:

We are warned that what the Iraqi people will next choose as their government may not be quite the one that would meet our standards; that no democracy will follow; even that a new military dictator may arise. Marr argues that if Iraq were left to its own devices after a military operation, nothing much would change and the result would be highly destabilizing. All this may be true, but even our continuing presence in Iraq would not ensure success. None of the countries with similar cultural, social, and religious backgrounds have developed or maintained democratic governments. (Several of them hold elections, but typically there is one candidate and one party and they get 97 percent of the vote, as President Bashar al-Assad in Syria does. They have very little of what a genuine democracy takes: a free press, competing parties, civic education, and pluralism.)

If the Iraqi people are not ready to take to the streets in defense of their newly won freedoms (as the people of Russia and the Philippines did), and a new Saddam-like ruler dominates them, this still does not mean that we are back at the starting gate. First of all, such a new dictator will have learned that it is not conducive to his health and that of his regime to ignore U.N. (and our) demands not to develop weapons of mass destruction, to oppose meaningful inspections, and to support terrorists (whether or not they are card-carrying members of al Qaeda).

Second, if a future head of Iraq is so dense that he cannot learn from the immediate past and chooses to embark on the same course that led Saddam to his downfall, and our various allies again unwisely sell him what he needs to proceed, it still would take him a decade or longer to reach the same level of armament Iraq now commands. I will even grant that in the worst-case scenario, at some point in the future, the international community, led by us, may need to clean up the mess one more time. Still, it readily beats us becoming mired in Iraq for years to come. President Bush should read up on what Candidate Bush said about nation building. It is a very thankless and dubious task. See Afghanistan, see Haiti. One hopes that when Condoleezza Rice told the Financial Times that the U.S. was completely devoted to the reconstruction of Iraq as a unified, democratic country, she did not mean that these were burdens we had to carry, but was mainly seeking to mollify our critics.

I say:

Sooner or later, we'll have to rip out the root of terrorism. But we don't have to do everything all that once, as the whiners seem to think.

The trouble with so-called progressive minded folk is they don't understand the concept of progress.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
The nihilists and the liars have buried truth alive in a shallow grave.
"We never voted for Saddam" - Imam Husham Al-Husainy
New Clueless author.
If the Iraqi people are not ready to take to the streets in defense of their newly won freedoms (as the people of Russia and the Philippines did), and a new Saddam-like ruler dominates them, this still does not mean that we are back at the starting gate.
Those "freedoms" were not "won". They (as they exist at all, see the bit about our military kicking in doors in Afghanistan) are AWARDED by the US and can be REVOKED by the US (again, kicking in doors in Afghanistan).

Freedom is NOT free.

If the people did not rise up against the LAST dictator, why does ANYONE believe they will rise up against the NEXT dictator?

First of all, such a new dictator will have learned that it is not conducive to his health and that of his regime to ignore U.N. (and our) demands not to develop weapons of mass destruction, to oppose meaningful inspections, and to support terrorists (whether or not they are card-carrying members of al Qaeda).
So, Saddam has NEVER heard of ANY OTHER TIME when the US has gone in to "liberate" a country and get rid of a dictator?

Saddam KNOWS what CAN happen.

Saddam also KNOWS that our memory is short and we're easily distracted.

He's survived for a decade since the last war.

Okay, for the clueless out there, being dictator does NOT mean you have a nice quiet retirement.

Being dictator is about having ALL THE POWER for as long as you can keep it.
New No, clueless Brandi
New Nice refutation there. Chock full 'o facts.
If it turns out that it was just eaten, and you've got some good ones, I'll edit this out.
End of world rescheduled for day after tomorrow. Something should probably be done. Please advise.
New It don't work that way
When you have truly telling points, they are ignored. Only marginal points get argued against. See my post re: Bush's little white lie in politics. You don't see any Marlowe posts under it do you? Just a unrelated rant by boxley. (Bill has balls, unlike some I could name).
"A civilian gang of thieving lobbyists for the military industrial complex is running the White House. If to be against them is considered unpatriotic -- Hell, then call me a traitor."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
New hmmph just because my synapses dont fire in the same order
as yours doesnt mean its unrelated :-)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
New I spoke of lies
You didn't. That is unrelated to my way of thinking..
"A civilian gang of thieving lobbyists for the military industrial complex is running the White House. If to be against them is considered unpatriotic -- Hell, then call me a traitor."
-- Hunter S. Thompson
New Of course not.
Just felt the need to remind said individual that they were exercising their constitutionally protected first amendment right to make a total ass out of themselves in public.
End of world rescheduled for day after tomorrow. Something should probably be done. Please advise.
New Re: Nice refutation there. Chock full 'o facts.
yah bad mood there, back from Atlanta (flying Delta) and driving an hour back from airport. Only bit of humor there was when the captain flying the plane told everyone he was one of those shoe-searched and wanded, geez, what are they gonna do if he wants to fly the damn plane into the ground?

Still have a bit of gravel up my gut but I'll get over it. I think.
     OpEd: After the regime change - (marlowe) - (8)
         Clueless author. - (Brandioch) - (7)
             No, clueless Brandi -NT - (wharris2) - (6)
                 Nice refutation there. Chock full 'o facts. - (inthane-chan) - (5)
                     It don't work that way - (Silverlock) - (3)
                         hmmph just because my synapses dont fire in the same order - (boxley) - (1)
                             I spoke of lies - (Silverlock)
                         Of course not. - (inthane-chan)
                     Re: Nice refutation there. Chock full 'o facts. - (wharris2)

I'm sorry ... I have to go Google your threat.
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