Sorry for the troubles

Post #52,667 by orion 9/21/02 8:44:38 PM Reply	Sorry for the troubles the dream job that I thought I had turned into a nightmare as coworkers block me on every thing that I am trying to do to help out the company. Plus my homelife is screwed up, my son is the destroyer of operating systems, ruined my laptop, but I was able to recover from that fumble. I'm watching him, but I had my mother help me out by babysitting him at my house while I try to fix computer issues but all I had time to do was check here, feed a disk to three different machines while I use this 98 Workstation to read ZIwe. My son won't nap, is crying, my mother was sleeping, so I had to watch him for the X hours that I was supposed to set up my servers, figure out database conversions. I am so distracted that I cannot think a complete thought anymore without getting stressed out or fustrated. I am taking CRC's advice and trying to grow a backbone, but I am getting called a newbie and being made fun of when I post what issues and problems I have with various Microsoft alternatives. I also am posting what my coworker's have said about them and other concerns. So I am turning into a Mr. Hyde, or whatever my dark side is called. I get by on 3 or 4 hours of sleep a day now, get the crap beat out of me by my 3 year old and 62 pound son while I sleep, and he is currently out of my control, destroying stuff, and running amuck while I am trying to get every fucking thing fixed here and working. So far nothing has gone right and everything is blowing up in my face. Compared to me, Job from the bible had it easy. I am just trying to figure out where the hidden cameras are on the "Drive Norman insane" reality TV show. I'd check myself into a mental hospital, but I don't think I switched insurance companies yet. See what happens when I promise you all that I wouldn't kill myself? *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #52,707 by folkert 9/22/02 6:56:36 PM Reply	It's not about your whining... err... troubles It's mainly about doing them without details... Norm, we can only help WITH deatails of the problems... we need facts to help you FIX the problems... So, take a deep breath... and relax... step back... look at the picture you have been painting... You cannot lose the war, with us behind you. You may lose some battles but... just take our advice... for what it is... real. factual. obscure. usually correct... cause even we make mistakes... (yes, we do, believe it or not)... But remember it IS advice... which of course CAN be ignored by you... if you choose to... and No, I don;t care if you use M$ crapware... but at least do the right thing and do get things done... that's what your employer wants... just maybe have these people show you want they want and ask questions... and listen... I know the hardest thing for me to do is to NOT comment just listen... then comeback later... after things simmer... You'd be suprised, about the listen and come back later routine... it makes people feel you AT LEAST thought about it... Which, if you are like me... My mind was made up 3 seconds after they said it... but they don't gotta know that... One last thing... it ain't your job to SAVE they company in the first month or your out... but it IS your job to learn how it works and NOT to take it out... which it sounds as if it could do that itself... Food... eat... digest... burp... then reply... `greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT, curley95@attbi.com -- [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!] Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds: Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.`
Post #52,743 by orion 9/22/02 10:27:36 PM 9/22/02 10:30:25 PM Reply	Well I am confused when I write an email at work, I get told that I wrote a "Book" and must be related to Stephen King (yeah he's my Brother, my Uncle is Don King, but not those famous guys, ah forget it. An ancester of mine signed some important paper a long time back and helped start this whole mess. Some guy named Rufus King, who I was almost named after.) Well anyway I am told to keep it short, anything over a page will not be read and will be deleted. Frell! I've written SQL Queries longer than that! So "VERBOSE OFF" in Infocom speak, and only use the smallest amount of detail. I forgot to use "VERBOSE ON" when posting on ZIwe. ;) Ok, Norman's brain 3.0.1.23 diagnostics running. HumanOS 1968 by "God and son", Mutant version variety "Computer Geek". Compute PI to 35 digits: 3.141592653589793238462443384678t3he5ynge (Close, but floating point error detected. Only 25 numbers after the decimal are correct.) System memory check.......... fatal error, short term memory static tables are invalid, switching to backup in long term memory. Warning long term memory static tables are invalid, running Memfix...... only 82% memory was recovred information lost was: Modern Linux installs. Recovery to Linux 1.X now set. Please reload Linux program by buying "Using Linux" book and reinstall for a few hours. College level English Grammar and Spelling, now reset back to 8th grade level. CPU upgrade failed, last known IQ = 234, current IQ = 128. Please attend a local college to fix this. High Level Physics memory damaged, resetting to High School Physics. testing.... "For each and every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction..." Newton's Laws updated. Please reinstall Particle Physics, Astronomy, Quantum Mechanics, visit your local Library or College for an install, should take a few hours or days. Formula for time travel that you invented in High School is now lost, please recalculate using "Dr. Who" Sci Fi files, Stephen Hawking's book "A brief history of time" and drink lots of soda and stay up for four weeks in a row until the formula comes back to you. Warning! You have not backed up this Human brain for over 20 years, you have not run Fskchk in 20 years. There appears to be invalid or missing files. Either repair or reformat. Reformatting may result in coming back as a different person or lifeform. Elvis was reformatted as your son, which is now your replacement as "God and son" stopped making your brand of human brain in 1983. Please insert shotgun into mouth and pull trig^C Aborted, are you sure? YES Reformatting aborted, but your Human Brain may not be functioning properly. Mutation level 4 now in progress to try and repair. Repair failed. Now Human Mutant Level 3.196A, class "Computer Geek". Suffered a loss in social skills and relationships with other Human Beings. Results, your friends now hate you, and you are stressed out from it. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]* Edited by orion Sept. 22, 2002, 10:30:25 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #52,744 by bepatient 9/22/02 10:36:52 PM Reply	Did you get your Uncle"s hair???? Just kidding :-) You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #52,755 by folkert 9/22/02 11:26:22 PM Reply	Please distinguish... Norm, please distinguish your actions being hated vs. you being hated... Norm, we like you... we like you alot... mtter of fact you are the only person my wife asks about regularly... Believe me WE that does include Pete... like you... it just is hard for even us to show angst towards your actions or writings and not have them look like angst towards you... Please consider my proposal... Soon... BTW, how the HELL did... you get v3.196A... let alone the attempted v4.0 install... I only have 2.00-RC_1 and diagnostic v 0xA.221-test, shoot your are lucky your fsck even ran... my binary is corrupted... and when the hell did they come-up with backups??? Shoot... betchya my PROMs are toast... that memfix thing... HAHAHA... good one... I've never even heard of such a program to recover static tables... Social Skills, that pointer points to .... <INODE NOT FOUND>... well who needs em, as it appears I don't have any... ;) Talk to ya later... I hope F2F soon... `greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT, curley95@attbi.com -- [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!] Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds: Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.`
Post #52,769 by static 9/23/02 12:20:57 AM Reply	Softly softly. Take it slowly. Don't try to do too much too soon. Tread water for a few weeks. Find your limits and stay within them. Don't promise the earth, moon, sun and stars when all you can deliver is a picture of a nice sunset. And spend time with your creator. Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #52,776 by Silverlock 9/23/02 1:09:43 AM Reply	Good advice Talk to your Mom. "We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they're elected. Dont you?" "Why?" "It saves time." -Terry Pratchett
Post #52,780 by static 9/23/02 1:31:47 AM Reply	That's not quite what I meant, but that's okay. :-) "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #52,814 by Silverlock 9/23/02 9:49:40 AM Reply	I know what you meant But I just couldn't resist. "We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they're elected. Dont you?" "Why?" "It saves time." -Terry Pratchett
Post #53,039 by Ashton 9/24/02 4:03:12 PM Reply	Troublemaker.. It's gonna be tough on a lot of folks when.. After a certain light at the end of a loooong tunnel, we find - She's Black Really pissed-off at what 'we' have been doing to Her nice planetary illusion. Doesn't like all this affected attention. Especially doesn't Like all the inferences of folks who had claimed a close-personal relationship - In Their Dreams. Basically wants to get back to watching how Ender finishes his game, and not be bothered with a lot of whining - which she calls cosmic SPAM. [That's all I'm permitted to reveal at this time]
Post #52,810 by CRConrad 9/23/02 9:26:48 AM Reply	Muahahaha, great one! :-) And goodonya mate, Wade, for taking it like that. Christian R. Conrad Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #52,865 by tseliot 9/23/02 1:58:24 PM Reply	I personally cannot believe it I watch otherwise bright and focused people get kids and suddenly become most distracted and shallow. My sister finished her Master's in speech pathology just before her son arrived. We had some engaging discussions, to say the least. Now I can't have a multiple-sentence conversation with her anymore. I can't imagine doing IT in any form with kids in the house. If I were you I'd go flip burgers til they're gone. ;) Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
Post #53,042 by jake123 9/24/02 4:12:14 PM Reply	IT with kids in the house I have two now... my son turns 3 in November and my daughter is nineteem months old. Trying to do anything but cast an eye on them is pretty much impossible when they're around. Jack -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- * Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca * * [link\|http://consultron.ca \|[link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca * * Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] * -------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #53,061 by Ashton 9/24/02 5:06:50 PM Reply	Now imagine.. The above - with a single parent. Welfare Queen\ufffd indeed. Gawd we Love our nasty slogans!
Post #53,625 by Snitcherooni 9/27/02 10:30:15 PM Reply	You are set up Norm! They wanted me to be in on the scam against you. This all dates back to the WWIV Terranet and Infoworld ramblings of yours from 1995-1999 against Apple and other companies. Turns out that you where right and they were wrong. But they got tired of you being such a smartass that many of them and their companies created "dummy corps" for you to work in and use Microsoft products to make your life a living hell. Then they snatch you into the IWETHEY scam, which will pay off when they force you to commit suicide by driving you insane. At the lawfirm and the place you currently work, they are putting eyedrops and other chemicals into your soda, water, and other drinks. Then when you almost get a heart attack or stroke and try to stay home or go to the hospital they write you up for it. The doctors and hospitals are in on it as well. They keep telling you that they cannot find anything, yet they are in with your pharmacy to give you posion that looks like real pills so that you can never get better. Remember your friend who comitted suicide in 1999, Mike M.? They did the same thing to him and many others. They wanted me to be a part of it, many of the people posting here and now working with you. But I told them no, and now I am warning you, get out, get away from IWETHEY, and never talk to these people again.
Post #53,629 by ChrisR 9/27/02 10:44:14 PM Reply	Take it elsewhere... Qualifies as childish and boring. Go somewhere else and troll.
Post #53,631 by deSitter 9/27/02 11:19:16 PM Reply	Re: Take it elsewhere... I'm fairly sure it was Norm that wrote that. -drl
Post #53,633 by boxley 9/27/02 11:21:18 PM Reply	seconded will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #53,656 by bepatient 9/28/02 1:57:13 AM Reply	Doesn't change my response This is no place for that. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #53,715 by Another Scott 9/28/02 11:16:34 AM Reply	Doesn't seem like NK's writing to me. Compare with, e.g. [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=52731\|Excuse Me]. Orion almost always includes (at least one) statement ending with a question mark in his posts. Either way, I agree that it's highly inappropriate. Regards, Scott.
Post #53,883 by orion 9/29/02 11:05:24 PM 9/29/02 11:06:38 PM Reply	Not me, but it disturbs me greatly as they seem to know a bit about me, not a lot, but enough to creep me out. If what they are saying is true, which I highly doubt, there is not much I can do about it anyway. Dupe post, please ignore. Apparently I am having timeout issues again with my DSL? Oh joy! *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]* Edited by orion Sept. 29, 2002, 11:06:38 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #53,884 by orion 9/29/02 11:05:48 PM Reply	Not me, but it disturbs me greatly as they seem to know a bit about me, not a lot, but enough to creep me out. If what they are saying is true, which I highly doubt, there is not much I can do about it anyway. But what do I know? *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,904 by deSitter 9/30/02 4:12:33 AM Reply	No, the actual telltale sign.. ..is the use of the word "lawfirm" as one word. Of course it's "law firm". Confer here [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=40644\|http://z.iwethey.or...tentid=40644] and here [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/10/15/12521/171\|http://www.kuro5hin...15/12521/171] etc. etc. I could point out other stylistic similarities but it would be superfluous. I am shocked at this kind of behavior from an adult. -drl
Post #53,914 by orion 9/30/02 7:12:08 AM Reply	Interesting could be someone like you, looking at my previous posts, and then using them to create a post that could be mistaken for one of mine? Shocking in itself and it hurts me greatly that you did not even bother to consider that option and accused me of doing it before you had all the clues. [link\|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=lawfirm&btnG=Google+Search\|Do a Google.com search on "Lawfirm"] you will see that many other people also make this mistake. If it is in fact a mistake apparently "law firms" also use "lawfirm" instead of "law firm". You'd think that even "law firms" in the USA and other countries would understand that? Apparently words do get invented this way. :) But still DeSitter, thanks a lot. Nice to know that I still have friends that stick up for me. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,930 by deSitter 9/30/02 10:57:30 AM Reply	Re: Interesting Of course I am your friend - that is why I am doing this. I have a better insight now into your mental state. It's not depression, it's narcissism, and the way to fix it is to confront the narcissist. I'm confronting you. -drl
Post #54,798 by orion 10/3/02 9:50:14 PM Reply	What can I do then? I don't even love myself, I am too depressed for that. How could I be a narcissit then? I can't stand to look at myself in a mirror, I hate the way I look and want to lose weight. I hate the way that some people treat me, and I am tired of turning the other cheek all the time. So what now? *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #54,801 by boxley 10/3/02 10:03:51 PM Reply	get a scrip for androgel if your testosterone levels get amped a bit you might be less inward looking. If your doc wont prescribe call the company that makes it to see if there is a local quack giving away samples. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #54,982 by orion 10/4/02 11:12:00 PM Reply	May not be the problem I am still as hairy as ever, loss of testosterone will cause hair loss, of which I have not had none. I am still a hairy mutant. :) Besides the side-effects of androgel may not be worth using it, and may conflict with some other medicine I am currently taking for my illnesses. Thanks for the suggestion, if find out I do have a loss of testosterone I will ask my doctor about it. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #55,379 by Another Scott 10/7/02 8:22:46 PM Reply	Not quite right. I am still as hairy as ever, loss of testosterone will cause hair loss, of which I have not had none. That's not quite the way it works. Male pattern baldness is associated with the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. If you've got a low testosterone level, you're less likely to have hair loss by that mechanism. In short, being hairy is not an indication that you've got plenty of testosterone. More [link\|http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/4ec06.htm\|here] - a news blurb about Propecia: Hair count increased during the first year and was maintained in those men taking Propecia for 24 months. Men in the placebo group continued to show progressive hair loss. In an analysis of the men who were followed for up to two years, only 17 percent of men treated with Propecia demonstrated hair loss (defined as any decrease in hair count from baseline); 83 percent had the same or higher hair count. In contrast, 72 percent of the placebo group lost hair, as measured by hair count. [...] In clinical studies, side effects were uncommon and did not affect most men. A small number of men reported less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection and/or a decrease in the amount of semen. Each of these effects occurred in less than two percent of men. These side effects went away in all men who discontinued therapy because of them and also disappeared in 58 percent of men who chose to continue taking Propecia. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #54,815 by deSitter 10/3/02 11:03:16 PM Reply	Re: What can I do then? I'VE TOLD YOU BEFORE. EASE UP. NOW. -drl
Post #54,817 by deSitter 10/3/02 11:06:58 PM Reply	Re: What can I do then? You might also consider apologizing to these folks. -drl
Post #54,818 by bepatient 10/3/02 11:08:22 PM Reply	That would've been my suggestion. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #54,981 by orion 10/4/02 11:10:33 PM Reply	Apologizing I humbly apologize to whomever or whatever group I may have offended. I have been going through some hard times and had my medicine adjusted and lost a lot of sleep and may have said some thing that hurt some people's feelings. So if I owe you an apology, consider this one a public apology to you or whomever I owe an apology to. Can we be friends again now? *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #54,993 by deSitter 10/4/02 11:49:52 PM Reply	No An apology should be spoken like a man - as in "I'm sorry", not "I'm sorry because..." Try again, lose the excuses. -drl
Post #55,348 by orion 10/7/02 7:35:41 PM Reply	Apology again I'm sorry for my past behavior. Can you guys forgive me? No excuses. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #55,351 by boxley 10/7/02 7:38:45 PM Reply	no prob norm will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #55,354 by deSitter 10/7/02 7:44:51 PM Reply	Of Course! See how easy that was? Everyone is crazy! I should know! -drl
Post #55,372 by orion 10/7/02 8:16:13 PM Reply	There is a fine line between insanity and genius, and I have crossed it many times myself. :) *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #55,375 by imric 10/7/02 8:21:06 PM Reply	Heh - I'm still looking for the pencil to draw it with... Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,377 by deSitter 10/7/02 8:22:05 PM Reply	Bullshit That's a romantic illusion promulgated by Hollywood and cheap novels. Genius is very rarely associated with insanity - and never in the really huge examples like Einstein and Beethoven. -drl
Post #55,381 by imric 10/7/02 8:33:15 PM Reply	I dunno... I know a few true geniuses - and genius seems to engender strange personality traits... I s it not crazy because 'on them it looks good'? The [link\|http://www.student.math.uwaterloo.ca/~dajhorn/novelties/ESR%20-%20Curse%20Of%20The%20Gifted.html\|'curse of the gifted'] has social effects, too... [link\|http://www.santafecoach.com/gchallenges.htm\|More on the subject]. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,400 by Ashton 10/7/02 10:40:00 PM Reply	Very nice thanks - bookmarked. Besides, 'insanity' is always a moving language target: you are 'disciplined' when some nebulous point is attained - where what you say, do is 'scary' - thus noticed, and by a mere few.. of the Appointed Busybodies which Puritanism has decreed shall always be around us (the non-mangerial versions choose to be Cops). Ashton
Post #55,456 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 7:04:00 AM Reply	Stupid request Could you stop putting targets in your links? If I want it in a new window, I can right-click. But if I don't, I can't get that behaviour. With tabbed browsing, it opens in an inconspicuous new tab, so I generally prefer reusing the existing one. Thanks, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,468 by imric 10/8/02 8:31:58 AM Reply	Sure... Even with targets, though, if you 'open in new tab' opens targeted links in a new tab anyway... NP, though. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,479 by deSitter 10/8/02 9:46:38 AM Reply	Re: Sure... Hey, I like targets and often praised this behavior in you. But I can live without it. -drl
Post #55,562 by imric 10/8/02 7:01:08 PM Reply	Nice to be appreciated - thanks! Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,603 by deSitter 10/8/02 8:27:00 PM Reply	Re: Nice to be appreciated - thanks! Just make the first half of any linked text targeted, and the second half not. Geez, I can't believe how anal people get. Like you know, when people misspell "definately"? I FUCKING HATE THAT! SO WHOEVER YOU ARE OUT THERE MISSPELLING D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y, FUCKING CUT IT OUT, MAN! OK? OK?? FINE! -drl
Post #55,649 by deSitter 10/8/02 11:21:45 PM 10/8/02 11:30:34 PM Reply	Re: Nice to be appreciated I really have to say this - of all the people here with their marvellous talents - even those I've flamed out of trying to get them to "snap out of it!" - I've always thought you were somehow at the top of the whole lot, and never got to show it. So you are very much appreciated, and I hope you get to show it some day. -drl Edited by deSitter Oct. 8, 2002, 11:30:34 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #55,721 by imric 10/9/02 9:06:54 AM Reply	blush Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,501 by kmself 10/8/02 1:30:46 PM Reply	Targets & tags -- annoying as hell Particularly frustrating is when the current tab is (as my current one is) at the extreme right of the screen. Opening a new tab becomes an invisible operation. I usually repeat the click several times (OK, did I not hit it, is my browser frozen, is the link Javascript?...). No, it's a fucking target. Otherwise, what Ben said. I want a new window, I can make one. -- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever. Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
Post #55,547 by imric 10/8/02 6:31:23 PM Reply	shrug Tell you what. Let's vote on it. The reason I used targets was because I find it 'annoying as hell' to have to a) right click then select 'open new window', or B) hit the back button to get back to the forum - especially when I follow links 'further out'. Since opening in a new tab by right clicking DOES work on a targeted link, and DOESN'T leave a blank tab or anything, that means that it can only be 'annoying as hell' if you do a simple click on the link AND you don't mind backing up (possibly many times) to return to the forum. WHEN I am in IE (It happens, you know), non-targeted links on this forum are REALLY 'annoying as hell' to ME - no tabs even available. Opening a new tab becomes an invisible operation. I usually repeat the click several times (OK, did I not hit it, is my browser frozen, is the link Javascript?...). No, it's a fucking target. Funny, I don't see this behaviour. The closest I get to it is IF I have 'open links in background' clicked in tabbed browsing options. I didn't think it was a big deal to stop doing targeting links to new windows, but now I'm not so sure I want to stop. I think the links are better for this board; better for linking to items intended to support a point in a discussion, as opposed to a means of wandering all over the place. Tabs are still an option for those that have them (I can't duplicate the problem you seem to be having with opening targeted links in tabs). So - let's call for a vote. Who doesn't mind [link\|http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0823.kde.html\|targeted links], and [link\|http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0823.kde.html\|who finds them 'annoying as hell']? (sample links - be sure to read the whole article - multiple pages) I will change my linking behaviour according to the wishes of the community. I take extra time to make the links more useful (without having to force extra clickety-clickety-clickety requirements), believe me, I'll have no problem stopping if that's what the majority wants. PS - sorry 'bout potentially changing my mind, Ben, something about Karsten's post just rubbed me the wrong way. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,558 by drewk 10/8/02 6:52:45 PM Reply	What he's talking about At my current browser width, I can fit about eight or nine tabs across the top before they start disappearing off the right. There is a small UI widget to indicate you can scroll to the "hidden" tabs, but it's not entirely obvious if you don't go looking for it. If I already have my 9 tabs open, a tenth one won't seem to do anything as I don't see the tab and may not notice the new widet. Personally I default to opening links in the same window I'm in. If I want it in another tab or in a new window I right-click it. In cases where I do that it doesn't matter whether you've targetted the link or not. In cases where I just click it, I'm not terribly bothered by the new window if it appears. (Now that I'm using a tabbed browser, that is.) But for people with other defaults, I can understand it conflicting with their preferred settings. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,561 by imric 10/8/02 6:59:25 PM Reply	So - you don't mind targets? 'K.. I'm curious, though - do you see why I do it? Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,584 by drewk 10/8/02 7:40:18 PM Reply	Sure, I see why With modern browsers [cough not IE-anything] you can configure this however you want, and override this choice on a per-link basis. But if you are using IEx and the link is targetted you have no choice. There a a few fora I go to where the standard is links within the site open in the same window, outside links open a new window. I'm sure part of this is the old wisdom about how not to lose viewers, but I can also see the two advantages (when it is used responsibly): clear differentiation between internal and external links; and not having to click back through a long chain to get back to where you started. The second issue is IMO outweighed by the fact that far too many poeople don't use them responsibly. I've been to sites where every single link spawned a new window. And no, it wasn't porn, it was just poor design. (I could see the "base" link at the top of each page right above the "generator = FrontPage" metatag.) Which leaves differentiation of internal and external links. IMO people who can't already identify this through any of the multiple other UI hints won't get the difference anyway. So (man this is getting longer than I intended) while I'm not particularly annoyed with them when they are done right (and you've done them "right") I wouldn't put targets in myself, even if it didn't take any extra effort. It's like popups: the utility seems to be outweighed by the potential for abuse. Oh, take all that with [link\|http://www.saltbook.com/saltyages/yan.html\|this] or [link\|http://www.shirtcountry.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=1245\|this], depending on your mood. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,569 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 7:11:47 PM Reply	What he said And what prompted me to make my request was doing exactly that. While navigating several pages in parallel I clicked in to IWETHEY, clicked on a link, tabbed elsewhere, came back, went, "Huh, thought I clicked" and did it again, went away, came back and said, "I know that I clicked...oh." Hence the word "stupid" in my "stupid request" title. :-) Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,565 by admin 10/8/02 7:04:54 PM Reply	FWIW, I've always disliked targeted links. Because sometimes I do wish to use the same browser window. Case in point: Oracle documentation insists on using a targeted link at certain places. I don't wish to have a billion windows around. Or if I do allow the target, and it's a named target, I end up with the most recent click appearing over whatever I had navigated in that named window. Since I don't use IE (nyah nyah nyah) -- or Windows for that matter -- I just middle-click on the link when I want it to open in another window. No need even for a context menu. :-) While I do appreciate the time you spend trying to make it a better experience here, my own personal preference is for no targets. Of course, the ideal solution here is to add a user preference and parse the targets out of the links when necessary so everyone can have their favorite behavior... Bribes are acceptable, liquid bread preferred. ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,576 by imric 10/8/02 7:29:32 PM Reply	Bribes... Dang - how to get the Guinness to you w/o spoiling in the mail... I know! [link\|http://www.imrics.net/guinness/\|Cheers!] Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,578 by admin 10/8/02 7:34:15 PM Reply	Bah. Now I have to go buy some. Once the idea is set in the mind... It is by will alone I set my beer in motion. It is by the juice of hop brew that the thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stain, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my beer in motion. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,591 by boxley 10/8/02 7:54:11 PM Reply	If I see a link in Imric's post I know a new window will pop I am sure Karsten knows that as well. Either adjust or dont. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane." Lyndon LaRouche
Post #55,602 by deSitter 10/8/02 8:16:53 PM Reply	Re: shrug Tell you what. Let's vote on it. Hey, just make the targeted links f*cking huge so people can avoid them! -drl
Post #55,606 by boxley 10/8/02 8:44:42 PM Reply	your target did not link :-) will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane." Lyndon LaRouche
Post #55,611 by Another Scott 10/8/02 8:56:11 PM Reply	Can see both sides. I've only been using the tabbed browsing feature of Mozilla a day or so. I usually had about 6 Mozilla windows open when I was browsing, so having a new Target window open was neat and appreciated by me. It does make navigation a bit easier when most of your interaction is in a particular window. Now when I would normally hit Ctrl-N I instead hit Ctrl-T and minimize the clutter on the Taskbar. I'm growing quite fond of it and don't see the need for the target window myself. [...] you don't mind backing up (possibly many times) to return to the forum. WHEN I am in IE (It happens, you know), non-targeted links on this forum are REALLY 'annoying as hell' to ME - no tabs even available. (Emphasis added.) I've been to some sites that put a bunch of cruft on the browser window stack so that hitting Back doesn't go anywhere (apparently by design to try to keep me at their site). As a result, I've become quite adept at hitting the Go menu and selecting the place I want to go back to. :-) It sounds as though leaving out the target window would cause fewer problems here, but I do appreciate the thought and effort you made. Cheers, Scott.
Post #55,677 by kmself 10/9/02 3:11:41 AM 10/9/02 3:31:10 AM Reply	How to open in new windows, block target-generated windows The reason I used targets was because I find it 'annoying as hell' to have to a) right click then select 'open new window'... Middle click (or chorded left & right buttons on my laptop). Opens new tab/window in Galeon, with appropriate preferences setting. OTOH, I just ran across [link\|http://www.mozilla.org/unix/customizing.html\|this preferences setting option]: `// Override popping up new windows on target=anything. // This is now accessible in the prefs dialog, under Advanced\|Scripts&Windows. user_pref("browser.block.target_new_window", true);` I'll give that a shot and see how it works. (One browser restart later) OK, that works, confirmed it with your links, imric. So here's the deal: the browser determines behavior. The user can override presentation. And with this setting, no more new windows from target tags. ...and sorry for rubbing you wrong, but now you don't matter ;-) Oh, and nice links, BTW. -- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever. Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]] Edited by kmself Oct. 9, 2002, 03:31:10 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #55,720 by imric 10/9/02 9:05:33 AM Reply	smile OK, then, no problems anymore? Ben, anyone? Heh - I'm glad I don't matter... :) Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,834 by ben_tilly 10/9/02 6:48:43 PM Reply	I can't use Karsten's solution At least not with my current email address because they have pop-ups in several places (launch a pop-up, then navigate the local frame - gets past the Mozilla logic). With Karsten's suggestion I would not be able to read my email. :-( But if I am the only person affected, I can live with a little minor irritation. (Hey, I still have to work with Microsoft products...) Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,842 by imric 10/9/02 7:58:14 PM Reply	Hmmm. But you were the one to originally request me not to! I'll think of something. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,461 by boxley 10/8/02 7:51:55 AM Reply	absolutely true Im quite off brand myself and can best be described as cunning. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #55,374 by imric 10/7/02 8:19:05 PM Reply	smile With pleasure. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #55,378 by bepatient 10/7/02 8:22:29 PM Reply	Sure thing, man. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #55,391 by ben_tilly 10/7/02 9:27:41 PM Reply	Much better To me the best apology is to not do it again. If you do that, you will never again hear about this episode from me. Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,401 by Ashton 10/7/02 10:42:44 PM Reply	De nada.
Post #55,446 by Steve Lowe 10/8/02 3:44:48 AM Reply	Yes, and Thanks. ----- Steve
Post #55,040 by ben_tilly 10/5/02 7:36:01 AM Reply	A tip We already don't believe you. Asking us to believe more stories now is just insulting our intelligence. Making people feel insulted is not an apology. Got it? Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #53,967 by admin 9/30/02 12:39:34 PM Reply	What's really interesting... Is that this person did the following only: Hit the main page. Created a new user. Hit the Water Cooler Forum. Hit the root post in this thread only. Added the response. That's it. The user 1) knew exactly where he was going and 2) was here explicitly to add that response. He didn't look at ANYTHING other than what was necessary to create the post. Oh... some interesting name lookup information on his IP address: adsl-65-64-153-148.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net In other words... it is someone who had been here as a user already and it is someone who lives in St. Louis... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #53,982 by SpiceWare 9/30/02 1:51:48 PM Reply	That address responds to ping but no response to ftp or http. Anybody know if SWBELL in St. Louis provides static IPs for ADSL accounts? Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #53,985 by deSitter 9/30/02 2:17:35 PM Reply	Re: That address responds to ping The point is made, let's please not rub it in. It's a serious issue to manipulate your friends like that. But there is no point in increasing the pain. Let me handle it, please. (Static or not, ICMP is on.) -drl
Post #53,986 by admin 9/30/02 2:20:47 PM Reply	Some personal accountability would be nice. Since I have the perp pretty much dead to rights with additional access log information that I haven't posted... It never hurts to apologize... especially considering the amount of time I've had to invest tracking this crap down. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #54,093 by boxley 9/30/02 9:10:48 PM Reply	Any chance of a 3rd person in STL with BSdsl who norm isnt having any luck installing a webserver for and who prolly knows very well this board and how it works because of norms frequent posting. I remember a co-worker who watched me on sleazyboard and shuffled my picture around. I was convinced one of you guys had hacked our server and was twisting in knots trying to find the hole while he was laughing his ass off. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #54,116 by admin 9/30/02 9:30:45 PM Reply	... I'm not going to get into it any further, owing to the request Ross made. There is more to this than just an IP address, however. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #54,126 by SpiceWare 9/30/02 10:15:22 PM Reply	? The point is made, let's please not rub it in. Umm, ok. I guess I missed something somewhere. :-/ Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #54,799 by orion 10/3/02 9:58:40 PM Reply	Interesting enough I used to work for a helpdesk for that Baby Bell and left it in Feb of 2002. I wonder if I made anyone there mad enough at me to do that? I'll write it off as a joke, if they do not do it again. I had a friend kill himself in 1999, that, as far as I know, is no joke. He faced a lot more demons than I did, but like me, one factor was the same, he was depressed and suicidal at times, and was going through a computer job at a small company that stressed him out. There are other reasons I won't go into here. But anyway if that poster stops, I assume they found out from Google.com or something else, I can forgive them. I assume they know how to email me, so drop me an email and explain your beef with me instead of posting it on a public forum. Sorry for being out of it, work had stressed me out a bit, I had to rest, also I was trying to get XP installed at my system at home and it frelled up the system, it would not let me uninstall, said the files were modified, so I reinstalled 98SE, only it doesn't all work right. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,630 by bepatient 9/27/02 10:59:32 PM 10/5/02 11:13:14 AM Reply	Fsck off bucko! You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient] Edited by bepatient Oct. 5, 2002, 11:13:01 AM EDT Edited by bepatient Oct. 5, 2002, 11:13:14 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #53,660 by pwhysall 9/28/02 2:28:40 AM Reply	Right. This is getting old. If this wasn't written by Norm, the advice posted by beep and others stands. Fuck off. Norm, if this /is/ you, would you care to explain what the fuck you're playing at? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #53,859 by orion 9/29/02 8:35:46 PM Reply	What do I know all of a sudden I have become "Interesting". All my friends are begging me for my work number, and they never did that before when I worked elsewhere. Something that I mention to a friend, all of a sudden gets mentioned at work by a coworker. People are popping out of the woodwork wanting to talk to me, call them back, email them, what websites I visit, what antivirus I use, can I help them with their computer as it is having problems, etc? Many people now want to talk to me about jobs, people I haven't talked to in a long time. People that blew me off for the past 6 or 8 months to a year. Even my friends that blew me off want to talk to me now, why, I have no idea? All I can say is that I have no idea what is going on, but wish whomever is doing it would stop. Apparently there is some sort of virus that the antivirus software cannot detect and remove and someone is spreading it around, I think some of my friends and family got hit with it. Not sure why. Many people have asked me confusing questions, and it is driving me to become very nervious. Please excuse my behavior recently, I am doing what I can to correct it. If you think that I am doing it on purpose, then I see no reason to continue this discussion. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,860 by boxley 9/29/02 8:38:56 PM Reply	time to adjust again, working again has changed your situation. Feel free to talk to me off line bud, thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #53,865 by bepatient 9/29/02 9:15:33 PM Reply	Forgive me if I don't see a problem... ...with anything in the previous post. All of a sudden it appears that people respect your opinion...value your judgement...give a damn about you... And you're complaining? Take a breath dude...there isn't anyting wrong with a little human interaction. Virus could very well be the klez or a variant. Get the detector from Symantec and run it. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #53,881 by orion 9/29/02 10:57:19 PM 9/29/02 11:01:16 PM Reply	Apparently not Klez The Syamtec detector and Norton AV 2003 (Just paid $60USD for the Norton Antivirus 2003 Pro) cannot seem to find anything. Any other ideas? My brother's and father's systems are almost FUBARed, as are many others from friends and relatives that talked with me about it. Mostly bad or invalid registry issues, unexplained errors in Java and Explorer (Not IE, the Windows Explorer, even browing C: drive causes an error), and if XP works, it just cannot see the other computers in the same workgroup with the same subnet and IP range. The 98 systems appear to be totally fubared and XP works, sort of. Reformatting and reinstalling the OS does not seem to fix the problem. Tried 98, 98SE, XP Pro, 2000 Pro, no differences except 98 loads, complains of errors reading the CD (but it is clean no scratches), Xp loads, no errors, but cannot see other systems and locks up at times, 2000 Pro does not install and the BIOS Virus scanner detects a virus, does not tell me what virus it is, but says to visit antivirus.org for more info, of which it is down! Any suggestions for other antivirus solutions? [link\|http://www.antivirus.org\|antivirus.org] appears to be down for some reason? *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]* Edited by orion Sept. 29, 2002, 11:01:16 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #53,897 by kmself 9/30/02 12:14:56 AM Reply	Klez spoofs sender It's not clear if you're talking about an email virus that associates are getting, or if you're referring to another metaphorical "virus" that's making you popular again. In the former case, the Klez worm has been circulating since mid-April. I've seen virus intercepts go from a base of 6-24 daily (averaging ~12) Jan - Apr 15, to a constant stairstup up, now currently averaging 250 intercepts daily. Absolutely no sign of it trailing off. We've watched people get infected multiple times. References: [link\|http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.klez.h@mm.html\|Symantec W32.Klez.H@mm]. You'll find a scanning tool here. Check the Windows forum for a post of Grygus's as well. [link\|http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174,00.html\|Wired: Don't believe the "from" line]. -- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever. Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
Post #53,898 by Andrew Grygus 9/30/02 12:58:23 AM Reply	I presume . . . . you did your Klez.H check using a DOS based Klez tool after a fresh boot into Safe Mode. I've cleand Klez.H out of dozens of machines who's owners "Update my antivirus almost every day". By time Klez.H fixes were out, much of the world was infected, and updating your antivirus after the fact is futile - Klez.H nails it instantly - it looks like it's running, but it's just spinning of wheels. I use the Command Software Klez cleaner (but others should work). I copy the compressed file to the hard disk and immediately reboot into Safe Mode, uncompress and run the cleaner immediately. To be quite frank, since May, I've found only one Windows computer that's used to read email that didn't have Klez.H / Elkern.C. MS Office users average about 84 infections, WordPerfect users 33. Top number 340, lowest 16. The combo of Klez.H and Magistr is particularly annoying, as they protect each other (probably unplanned). I usually have to clean those from a DOS boot with an up-to-date DOS cleaner - and, presuming they haven't cleaned up their "Temporary Internet Files" for six months, it can take hours (no disk cache). I have had a few cases where Klez.H was cleaned, and an up-to-date antivirus reinstalled after clean, but Klez.H reoccurred. Fortunately these are quite rare. I'm not saying your problem is Klez.H, just cautioning that it's a tough one to pin down unless you use exactly the right procedure. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #53,905 by deSitter 9/30/02 4:52:11 AM Reply	Re: I presume . . Somehow I've missed it. Why do I always miss the fun? :) -drl
Post #53,911 by orion 9/30/02 6:38:13 AM Reply	What fun? Nobody seems to get my jokes either, that is what I get for trying to be funny. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,915 by ben_tilly 9/30/02 7:55:07 AM 9/30/02 7:56:48 AM Reply	Actually you likely didn't miss it The fun thing about Klez is that it leaves very few telltales for the person with it that they are the one sending out the mail. Lots of people have it and don't notice. Which is one of the reasons why it hasn't been slacking off. cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead] Edited by ben_tilly Sept. 30, 2002, 07:56:48 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #53,957 by deSitter 9/30/02 12:04:02 PM Reply	Re: Actually you likely didn't miss it I run that Symantec safe-mode tool from time to time and have never had a report of it. I have no virus protection, because it is useless. -drl
Post #53,912 by orion 9/30/02 6:44:59 AM Reply	Re: I presume . . I used the Symantec tool, apparently it was the Windows version and ran a GUI interface window as it processed the files on the hard drive. If there is a DOS version of it, please kindly point me to it. Anything to get rid of whatever is causing this thing. You know, you pay like $70USD for the Norton AntiVirus 2003 Pro software and you'd think that it would come with a DOS based scanner that can scan before the GUI of the OS loads. Why I remember way way back when that was the case. Perhaps I missed a configuration option? BTW any Open Sourced Virus scanners that don't charge you money for a year's worth of AntiVirus data file updates? Nothing like getting soaked for virus protection and updates when the newer ones start getting out. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,961 by jake123 9/30/02 12:13:48 PM Reply	Stop using windows It's the only way to be sure you're not going to get that stuff. It's not like alternative systems don't have good software... they do, and there are several viable choices you can make. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- * Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca * * [link\|http://consultron.ca \|[link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca * * Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] * -------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #54,800 by orion 10/3/02 10:01:45 PM Reply	I know but Windows is my bread and butter right now, it gets me a job. Linux, OS/2, DR-DOS, etc just don't seem to get me hired. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #53,964 by Andrew Grygus 9/30/02 12:35:28 PM Reply	We use Command antivirus . . . . $24/year download. Once installed on a machine, it can make a set of three floppies runable from DOS. I just copy them all to a directory on the Service CD-ROM I carry, and run it from there, or copy it to the subject hard disk and run it from there. Of course, you have to have a DOS 7 boot floppy. Some machines get so badly virus infected you just can't install and/or run an antivirus under Windows. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #53,867 by a6l6e6x 9/29/02 9:25:05 PM Reply	Fair weather friends? It's also easier to get a job when you already have one. It's the way of the world. Alex The sun will set without thy assistance. -- The Talmud

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