Post #49,612
8/16/02 3:55:18 PM
|
Question about Patents and MultiMedia
Hi folks! I've had a question come my way by the guy who's taking care of updating the MMOS2 subsystem for the eComStation product. He's discovering that a lot of patents have been coming out of the woodwork, and is troubled by the fact that this could create liability for eComStation. He asked me to help him locate an expert who might be able to advise him on some of the issues involved... preferably an inexpensive one! Here's an example. The JPEG group just started trying to enforce a patent on JPEG compression. We're considering replacing the IBM JPED codec in MMOS2 with a third party one developed by this guy in Germany named Chris. He has it on his website, and it has better error trapping and supports a heretofore unsupported variant of JPEG. However, it seems that it's quite likely that this would be in violation of the patent... which has not been defended since it was issued in 1987. The problem? Nobody wants to be the test case... because it would certainly be extremely expensive and we don't have a lot of money. So... if anyone here who is more up to speed on the madness issuing out of the USPTO could point me to resources, both human and online, I'd really appreciate it! Regards, Jack --
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #49,613
8/16/02 3:57:07 PM
|
isnt that why chris went to png instead of jpeg?
."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields
|
Post #49,617
8/16/02 4:54:16 PM
|
PNG is a GIF replacement
There's not a good free alternative to JPEG (lossy) that I know of. If lossless compression produces small enuf images for your needs, PNG will work. It's only where you're talking about photographic type images that JPEG is really necessary.
As far as I know, the JPEG committee is not trying to adopt or enforce any patents on the standard. The problem is with companies that are trying to enforce their absurd patents against the JPEG standard. The position of the JPEG committee can be found [link|http://www.jpeg.org/newsrel1.html|here].
|
Post #49,627
8/16/02 6:29:32 PM
|
Don't worry about the JPEG one...
unless you are using it for moving video.
Based on my reading of the patent, it was pretty specific.
As for .gif, don't worry about that either if you can put it off for a bit. That patent expires in 4 months.
Cheers,
Ben
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes.
-- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
|
Post #49,629
8/16/02 6:44:14 PM
|
While true...
The PNG format is absolutely superior to GIF, and you should use it whenever possible. :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
|
Post #49,645
8/16/02 9:56:09 PM
|
Re: While true...
Yeah, I know it's better... but LZW is used in a lot of other very important things like Portable Document Format. Hearing that that issue is going to go away soon is good news indeed.
That must be why the ghostscript folks are moving to full open source under GPL for their project...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #49,649
8/16/02 10:11:17 PM
|
Re: Don't worry about the JPEG one...
Well, thanks for the help! The gif one is a non issue for us, since IBM ponied up a long time ago. It's the jpeg ones that concern us... we don't want to become a target as we don't have the resources to defend ourselves from that sort of thing... and it could be a good way for certain parties to scuttle us (and I don't necessarily mean MSFT, either!).
We're hoping to replace the jpeg ioproc (that's what a runtime {*.dll} that handles codecs for MMOS2 is called) with a third party version that is less likely to croak out. We're also hoping to beef up the AVI support to include more versions of that voluminous standard.
The guy in question (I think he should remain nameless for now) has told me that the issue is a huge one, requiring a lot of labour. His research into how all these things are handled has led him into a quagmire... there are so many things that could be interpreted as infringing on so many things that finding out about all of them has turned into a complete time sucker for him.
Thanks again about the heads up on that one... I'm going to refer him to the page mentioned in this thread as well. The risk assesment on this issue is not up to me, for which I'm grateful:)
Thanks again, Ben... and if you have any pointers about where to get info to hack one's way through the jungle of patents on multimedia codecs, I'd be interested in reading them...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #49,674
8/17/02 8:33:16 AM
|
I don't think there are any good answers on that...
but if there are, then [link|http://lists.alt.org/mailman/listinfo/fsl-discuss|this] would be a good place to ask.
Cheers,
Ben
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes.
-- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
|
Post #49,719
8/18/02 8:40:32 AM
|
Re: I don't think there are any good answers on that...
Thanks for the pointer; I'm reading the archives now. I'll try posting to the list and see if I get any good information.
Thanks for the attention, Ben!
Regards,
Jack
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #49,650
8/16/02 10:17:47 PM
|
Re: Question about Patents and MultiMedia
Jack here is a [link|http://www.w3.org/Graphics/JPEG/Mitchell.html|link] to an old letter (1995) written by Joan Mitchell who worked for IBM. While I met her a few times, it was all well over a decade ago, so I have no idea how to contact her. In any case, I am quite forgettable and she would likely say "Who?". The JPEG international committee tried hard to have early disclosure of patents. So far no one has pressed any claims on the JPEG baseline (sequential Huffman) system that I know of. I can not take responsibility for knowing the future however. I have not attended the JPEG meetings for nine months now so I am a bit out of date. o o o The encoder certainly has proprietary things in it. But to the best of my knowledge, decoders would not be so likely to hit intellectual property. She represented IBM on the JPEG committee and should know what she is talking about. I recall her saying that the JPEG standard actually covered some 28 compression schemes most of them never to be used in practice. She is one of two authors of [link|http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=2295501228595&pid=0442012721|JPEG: Still Image Compression Standard]. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1993.Alex
"Television: chewing gum for the eyes." -- Frank Lloyd Wright
|
Post #49,656
8/17/02 12:04:34 AM
|
Re: Question about Patents and MultiMedia
Thanks! That was very useful!
Regards,
Jack
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
