beg to disagree

Post #4,691 by boxley 8/11/01 10:48:32 PM Reply	beg to disagree dialog was not nescesary to the character development because the protagonist was being defined by not who he is but how he re-acts. The historical context was obvious, insane Emperor that wanted to bang his sister and re-instituted games point very well to the Nero era but with a different ending. I claudius was tremendous but was telling the story differently. Example compare Saving Private Ryan with the longest day. Two views same story, one with action the other with dialog. my 2cents thanx, bill Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk
Post #4,710 by ben_tilly 8/12/01 1:32:30 AM Reply	Nope not the Nero era Marcus Aurelius was a real Roman Emperor who reigned from 161-180 AD. As depicted in the movie, he was a stoic and a philosopher. His son Commodus did indeed take over, was a brutal SOB, and some think he killed his father with poison. His rule was a disaster. From what I understand, the [link\|http://www.murphsplace.com/gladiator/marcus.html\|following website] is actually fairly accurate except for the pages (eg the one on Maximus) which are marked as fiction. Cheers, Ben
Post #4,712 by boxley 8/12/01 1:39:54 AM 8/12/01 1:45:05 AM Reply	Nero Marcos both Eyties wtfd:) (thanx!) Marcus Aurelius, Marky the ear Commodus, commonly know as dump thanx, bill Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk Edited by boxley Aug. 12, 2001, 01:45:05 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #5,192 by CRConrad 8/14/01 8:36:19 PM Reply	Marky the Ear or Marky the Golden? But - was he an Eyetie? "Aurelius", that looks like it could be derived from "Aurum" -- as in, check out what the (al-)chemical symbol "Au" stands for. Dunno about Marcus Aurelius -- and why do you Anglophones let him stay a Marcus, when you don't do that with Marcus Antonius but instead bowdlerize him into "Mark Anthony"? -- anyway, dunno about him specifically, but at least another century or so later, emperors were Illyrians and Iberians as often as Italians. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #5,213 by boxley 8/14/01 10:24:48 PM Reply	spaniards and greeks held the throne? what shame On Marcus Antonius in little italy they got antony little tony, fat tony, big tony, skinny tony, marky tony and bottles tony, baseball bat tony, license plate tony nini tony and tony tony :) thanx, bill Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk
Post #5,230 by Ashton 8/15/01 1:40:01 AM Reply	It's a Murican affliction, maybe on several levels - the intentional mispronunciation of furrin words. I can only suspect that it's somehow connected to common jingoism (if'n it ain't engineered here..) but possibly a nuance of Puritanism - Some words are indeed mellifluous, but that results in pleasure from the sound (!) so make it ugly - Mar with a hard-k ending.. to rhyme with bark? dunno about the Antonius except as more automatic Anglicizing. Lots of other samples esp. in California - most of the Spanish names have been butchered too, as I mentioned before - Vallejo, Los Angeles. Ugly. Ditto French phrases - hardly ever pronounced even close: even if Our version is harder to say and harsher. 'Nuance' escapes pretty well, though.. Then too - we are the prototypical monolingues. I don't know if we even try to teach a second language in HS now (?) Spanish shall soon have its revenge in several states, though. I'd go with the Aurum too. Hell even 007 played with that one.. (but I still like Hydrargyrum and Dysprosium, bestest ;-) Had to stay with Marcus Aurelius - or he'd sound Jewish! (Once ya start dissin other cultures, sounds - it's a treadmill ta keep things pure-ish) A.
Post #5,244 by boxley 8/15/01 8:38:28 AM Reply	Tell me where the Picketwire river is in Texas lost of that going around. thanx, bill Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk
Post #5,262 by Fearless Freep 8/15/01 10:48:46 AM Reply	Never miss a chance? the intentional mispronunciation of furrin words. I can only suspect that it's somehow connected to common jingoism (if'n it ain't engineered here..) but possibly a nuance of Puritanism - Of course, all non-native English speakers from other countries speak perfectly fluent English, so naturally, the mispronunciation of non-English words by Americans is purely the result of the a particularly American mindset Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #5,318 by Ashton 8/15/01 5:30:36 PM Reply	Yes, it's a mindset IMO Other countries I've visited do a better job with English words - especially when they adopt one for internal use (Le Jazz hot etc.), trying to actually say it as it is originally spoken. We seem to delight in mangling it - what else but intentionally? or slovenly: San Jose ~ sahn ho Zay we say, Sanazay Vallejo - ~ va Yay ho we say, V'layo Xavier (or Mexico) ~ Ha vier, May he co and on and and and Los Angeles ~ L(long-o)s Ahn kheles (admittedly an unfamiliar Murican sound, the 'khe') We say, Lazangelas That doesn't even begin on the French or German. Nor, as Spanish speakers approach plurality now in many locales: does the average Murican make any effort to notice how (for just One!) the 'll' is sounded in that common usage among Many US-via-Mexico names of streets, rivers, towns... Calle Ocho in Miami.. It's, cay yay Hey - go argue with de Tocqueville, who noticed this eons ago. It's Murican. Not Brit or elsewhere - they try. We mangle disdainfully. (Can't even say 'nuclear' half the time - including Pres. Ike! Try Dubya on that one, too..) And hearing it pronounced correctly, dozens of times: does not alter this yes - mindset, I have observed all along. So it's intentional sloth, not confined to the illiterate or overworked and undereducated. A.
Post #5,400 by drewk 8/16/01 9:36:21 AM Reply	Oh, the Brits do it too Of course their specialty is French names. I knew someone who went to England and had to find an address on Beauchamps street. Anyone who cares would know that is pronounced [Bo (long o) shahm'] as the French intended. After asking a half-dozen people who didn't recognize it, she showed the written name to someone. "Oh, you want [Bee' chum] street." She told me that every French street name was also horribly mangled. This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Post #5,427 by Fearless Freep 8/16/01 12:16:23 PM Reply	And Mexicans It's interesting to live down here near the border. I get to hear the way that people with Spanish as a first language just totally butcher English names (and Frnch names, for that matter) and pronunciation of English in general. But they try to get it right. I also get to hear a lot of English speakers try to pronounce Spanish names and words in general. Most try to get it right, but don't quite get it. They make a good effort, including the tilde on "n", the rolling "r" and "rr", the "ll' as "ya" and the "b" as "v". The "intenional mispronunciation" that Ashton claims is just nonsense. The languages collide culturally and both sides try to make it work properly Hardest part I've run into with language is when I used to travel a lot and would run into proper named from English (or Italian, IIRC) with a "ll" and I had to work very hard not to pronounce it like Spanish because I'm so accustomed to using Spanish pronunciations. Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #5,435 by a6l6e6x 8/16/01 1:24:00 PM Reply	Not only how words are said, but which words are used. You made me think of Hispanic waitress at a breakfast in a motel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I and another couple were placing our order. The waitress pulled out a tissue, wiped her nose, and said "Excuse me, but I'm constipated this morning." Of course we knew what she meant, but snickered after she left. Either she caught on to our amusement, or realized on her own that she used the wrong word. She came back and said "I'm sorry, I should have said congested. We say a word like the other word in Spanish." So, even a word with a common Latin root can trip you up. Alex Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe. -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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