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New Hello, Toast.
Mike misguidedly Moffitts:
And I maintain that Visual Basic is a good product. Yes, it sucks if you try to use "automation" with any of the rest of the shit that Microsoft makes, but if you stick to doing front-ends to Microsoft databases, it is a decent tool. I'd argue that you take two developers of equal skill in their languages, the VB guy will beat to market anyone developing in any other language. Are VB apps stable? Do pigs fly? But, if you know the product, its limitations and its "features", you can make stable apps with it, and faster than anyone else.
You ought to have known to expect this, Mike... If nothing else, then from knowing me.

One word: [link|http://www.borland.com/delphi/|Delphi]. Burns VB (and thus, you) to a crispy cinder.
   Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
New Amen, brother...
Delphi (and its evil Linux twin, whose name I can't remember)...Good!

VisualBullshit...Well, the name says it all!
jb4
"I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
New "Kylix". Here's a linky-thingy:
[link|http://www.borland.com/kylix/|HTH!] :-)
   Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
New Hey all, retry that link - Kylix 3 is out! (OP *and* C++!)
That's [link|http://www.borland.com/kylix/|[link|http://www.borland.com/kylix/|http://www.borland.com/kylix/]].
   Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
New I'll pass for now
I went to download Kylix 2.0 before, kept getting calls from Borland asking me if I needed licensing plans and if I had any plans to buy the other copy. I told them I had problems getting my Linux system up and running, would they assist, and they never called me back again. All I wanted to do was download the free version and try it out, not get pestered by Borland telemarketer salespeople.

I am free now, to choose my own destiny.
New Double hmmmm
[link|http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_kylix.html|[link|http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_kylix.html|http://www.borland....d_kylix.html]]

The download page only allows the download of Kylix Open Edition version 2 for Linux. What happened to 3, or is it not available for download yet?

I am free now, to choose my own destiny.
New Dunno, but at a guess, the same thing as with v. 2:
They do that later, when they get around to it.

Yeah, it sucks (at least a little bit), but I guess ya hafta understand them: The "Open" version is a bonus, a freebie that they don't make any money from -- they gotta concentrate on getting the for-pay versions out the door first.

Then again, when I checked out their page (about an hour before finally succeeding in posting this), they didn't have the for-pay versions in their "Online Shop" either; it was just K2 Pro and Enterprise as far as the eye could see. (Did you check, maybe they have those up now, at least?)

And their Finnish importer's pages don't seem to know about K3 at all, as of right now.

So, alas, I guess it's "Patience, Grasshopper!" for a while yet.. :-(
   Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
New Hoo--fscking--RAAAAYY!!!!
AwRIIIGHT!

Somebody get it!

Now, will Delphi 7 contain C++ Builder as well?

(I Hope...I Hope...I Hope...)
jb4
"I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
New I bought Kylix.
Haven't played with it much. You might have a point, but that is among the messiest IDE's I've ever looked at. And no, I don't like VB's either, but it seems a lot less cluttered than Delphi/Kylix.

And just to show that I haven't completely lost my mind, not knowing anything about Delphi, I am certain that it is a better tool for serial application development (RS-232). VB has always sucked at that, and it still does.
New "De gustibus non est disputandum"
Personally, I like the Delphi IDE fine... You can customize it quite a lot, I hope you noticed? No, the versions released so far don't have a single "frame" (or "MDI") application-wide main window; but at least on Linux you could kind'a simulate that effect by giving it its own virtual desktop, couldn't you?

I haven't a clue about "RS232", except that 'serial' sounds like what is also known (from DOS) as "COM ports"... which, it seems, all belongs under the "[link|http://www.torry.net/modems.htm|Modems]" category at [link|http://www.torry.net/|Torry's]. (Which is to say, it sure seems possible; what Borland doesn't deliver in the package, others do.)

[Added on edit]: Silly me, quoting you the VCL (Win32) components... What you want is on the "[link|http://www.torry.net/comp_klx_comms.htm|Kylix Communications Components]" page, of course!

There's a lot less stuff there than on the Win32 page, but Lukas Gebauer's "SynaSer Serial Port Library" looks like it could be exactly what you need...? Anyway, it's "FWS" (Torry-speak for "FreeWare with Source"), so you can check it out at pretty much no risk or cost at all.
   Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
Expand Edited by CRConrad July 19, 2002, 06:57:50 PM EDT
New Thanks for the links.
It'll be this week-end before I can really check into it, but check into I will.

Thanks again,
Mikem
New Re: Hello, Toast.
Another one that will crush the VB developer is rexx. It's a much cleaner language than VB in both its procedural and OO forms.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Yeah, maybe... But does rexx have a zero-effort GUI builder?
New It used to, anyway
Well, low effort, anyway. There was VX-Rexx and VisPro Rexx...

I think CA had a visual Rexx product that could create cross-platform programs (Windows/OS2) as well, but maybe I'm confusing them with Watcom. (Gah - I even had a copy of this product. Brainlock)

It's been a long time since I've even thought of visual Rexx.. I think the last time I used Rexx at all was for parsing strings on the AS/400...

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New GpfRexx too. Rather unfortunate name, that. :-)
New Efforts are underfoot to get Sybase to open source vx-rexx

So far they seem receptive. Time will tell if it will come about though.

I have VisPro... it's quite zero effort. It was a really nice product.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *
* [link|http://consultron.ca |[link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] ] irc.ecomstation.ca *
* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
     Outraged observer from afar - (dmarker2) - (41)
         Win95 comments - (wharris2)
         Hmmm.. - (bepatient)
         Everyone else is doing it, so it's not so bad? - (marlowe)
         Re: Outraged observer from afar - (kmself)
         Death from a thousand cuts - (drewk)
         Simple and straight forward - (Andrew Grygus) - (10)
             Re: Simple and straight forward - (dmarker2) - (9)
                 Perception vs. reality - (drewk)
                 Retiree funds . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                     Strong disagreement on your leading point - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                         Balanced depending on age - (wharris2) - (1)
                             Exactly right - (ben_tilly)
                 Maybe, maybe not - (wharris2) - (3)
                     Book Roasting - (Andrew Grygus)
                     Re: Interesting - that point discussed on Aust TV last night - (dmarker2) - (1)
                         Of course the system is flawed. - (static)
         M$ has been the *Model* for the growth in rapacity. - (Ashton) - (2)
             Speaking of Ed Curry - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                 Speaking of Ed Curry...again - (folkert)
         I will take some flame. - (mmoffitt) - (21)
             Oh yea? - (boxley) - (4)
                 Yeah. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                     same way anyone else does X:Y co-ordinates -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                         80x25 char based? :-) - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                             1024X768 :) - (boxley)
             Hello, Toast. - (CRConrad) - (15)
                 Amen, brother... - (jb4) - (6)
                     "Kylix". Here's a linky-thingy: - (CRConrad) - (5)
                         Hey all, retry that link - Kylix 3 is out! (OP *and* C++!) - (CRConrad) - (4)
                             I'll pass for now - (orion) - (2)
                                 Double hmmmm - (orion) - (1)
                                     Dunno, but at a guess, the same thing as with v. 2: - (CRConrad)
                             Hoo--fscking--RAAAAYY!!!! - (jb4)
                 I bought Kylix. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                     "De gustibus non est disputandum" - (CRConrad) - (1)
                         Thanks for the links. - (mmoffitt)
                 Re: Hello, Toast. - (jake123) - (4)
                     Yeah, maybe... But does rexx have a zero-effort GUI builder? -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                         It used to, anyway - (imric) - (2)
                             GpfRexx too. Rather unfortunate name, that. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 Efforts are underfoot to get Sybase to open source vx-rexx - (jake123)

That would be like Scott taking the Wal*Mart cruise.
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