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New What could possibly go wrong?
This long and dispiriting piece in The Atlantic—behind the site paywall, but I believe they offer lay readers a couple of free page views per month—sets forth any number of likely ways things will go wrong in November and during “the interregnum,” premised on the certain expectation that, no matter what, Donald Trump will not concede. Ever.

Among the dire scenarios laid out is one I consider rather likely: that the Republican-dominated legislatures in, say, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin will, in the event of an adverse (from their standpoint) result, simply declare the state results fraudulent and appoint their preferred slate of electors.

If that happens, gentlemen, the wheels come off.

curdle-ly,
New Re: What could possibly go wrong?
that the Republican-dominated legislatures in, say, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin will, in the event of an adverse (from their standpoint) result, simply declare the state results fraudulent and appoint their preferred slate of electors.

are you figuring that congress will be republican lead on 1/20/2021? If you remember bush/gore the florida government was set to do that and the congress was equally set to not accept them. That article was a joke, he apparently either didnt think it thru or didnt know his subject or was fearmongering for clicks. Suspect the latter.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New we are fortunate indeed, here
…to have your penetrating analyses of current trends and events, grounded in your encyclopædic knowledge of constitutional law and legislative procedure. I can’t begin to imagine why I bothered with this guy’s take instead of applying directly to you.
New you are and thank you
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Speaking of encyclopædic..
This link-[2] to an npr/Fresh Air interview has some {still juicy} takes on our Survelliance State ... though moderate in tone, despite the Uglies espied.

Sample:

On whether we're living in a Big Brother society

"Big Brother is a very imperfect analogy. On the one hand ... I see no evidence that the government is assembling these tools in order to spy on political opponents or corruptly to serve some private interest, or things that you worry about with the Big Brother analogy.

"On the other hand, it has accumulated powers that were beyond all imagination of George Orwell — that dwarfed the surveillance capabilities of Orwell — and as it has done so — as it has made the whole world and the U.S. population more and more transparent — it has become more and more opaque about what it's doing. So, increasingly we are living behind one-way mirrors in which the government knows more and more about us and we know less and less about what the government is doing."



Pretty succinct rephrasing of ~ [get in line..] climate, Ignorance, attenuated attention-span, Climate -vs-
exponential accumulation of stuff--as population goes all exponential (too)
..and just plain La-La-La I-don't-want-to-Hear. (Then, Piet Hein pens his last Grook), rhyming caffeine with En Fin?
New Congress only needs to be Republican led on 11/4 (or thereabouts)
Regardless of how the house/senate elections turn out, the sitting members will still unquestionably be in control (as lame ducks) through 12/14 when the Electoral College votes. If in the month between they decide to change their rules for appointing electors, they can do that.

North Carolina did something similar to their incoming governor as they were on the way out. Why wouldn't they do it at the national level?

And supposing there's a challenge mounted to doing such changes? Where would that challenge end up? That would be the USSC. Hmm ... Could this be why they're so determined to install someone?
--

Drew
New reread the document
so lets see what happened last time
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/presidential-election-goes-to-the-house
As dictated by the Constitution, the election was then turned over to the House of Representatives. The 12th Amendment states that if no electoral majority is won, only the three candidates who receive the most popular votes will be considered in the House. Representative Henry Clay, who was disqualified from the House vote as a fourth-place candidate, agreed to use his influence to have John Quincy Adams elected. Clay and Adams were both members of a loose coalition in Congress that by 1828 became known as the National Republicans, while Jackson’s supporters were later organized into the Democratic Party.
last time I checked the dems are in control of the house.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Read it yourself
That says what happens if the Electoral College doesn't reach a majority vote. I'm saying they can ignore the voters and replace the electors before the College votes.
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook Sept. 23, 2020, 11:09:15 PM EDT
New Not for that they aren't in control.
Each state delegation gets one vote for a Presidential election that goes to the House. There are 24 Democratic delegations and 26 Republican.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Ah, but the New congress would decide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

The contingent election procedure, along with the other parts of the presidential election process, was first established in Article Two, Section 1, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution, and then modified by the 12th Amendment in 1804. During a contingent election, each House state delegation casts one en bloc vote to determine the president, rather than a vote for each representative. Senators instead cast votes individually for vice president.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 1800s. In 1800, Thomas Jefferson was pitted against his own vice-presidential nominee in a contingent election due to problems with the original electoral procedure. In 1824, the presence of four candidates split the Electoral College, and Andrew Jackson lost the contingent election to John Quincy Adams despite winning a plurality of both the popular and electoral vote. In 1836, faithless electors in Virginia refused to vote for Martin Van Buren's vice-presidential nominee Richard Mentor Johnson, denying him a majority of the electoral vote and forcing the Senate to elect him in a contingent election.

All three contingent elections in the 1800s were held by the outgoing Congress, as, at the time, congressional terms ended/began on the same day as presidential terms. In the event of a future Electoral College deadlock regarding either the presidential election or the vice presidential election, it will be the incoming Congress holding a contingent election. This is because the 1933 20th Amendment changed it so that congressional terms now end/begin before presidential and vice presidential terms do.


So Donnie keeps trying all this God Emperor BS and Democratic turnout goes through the roof, and state delegations flip from majority GOP to majority Democratic in the House. Biden still wins.

Muahahaha...

Hypotheticals are fun, at times, but I don't think we should waste a lot of time on these things. We're going to have a new President on noon Wednesday January 20, 2021, and a new House and Senate will be active on January 3.

Build the blue wave. They can only try to steal close elections. Let's make it as difficult as possible for the monsters.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Better, but ...
That still depends on getting it to a contingent election. If they replace the electors before 12/14 and get a majority there, what's the legal mechanism to get it to a House vote?
--

Drew
New the house can vote to disenfrachise the electors as discussed in 2k
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Details?
--

Drew
New via objection
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15
Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified.
so president Pelosi could be in office for a while :-)
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New That only works if the Republicans deliberate
They can just take every objection and overrule. It all comes down to this:
But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.

IOW no matter how much the Dems object, Repos just need to hold the line and it goes to the governor to decide who are the "real" electors. Done.
--

Drew
New first the state courts would rule on the matter
then the feds, then the objections in the house meanwhile president pelosi will be there for a while
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Explain your timeline
Election is 11/3. Most of the results are in by 11/4. Looks like Biden will win. States that are currently Republican controlled, but vote blue, decide to appoint new Electors to the College. They can do this by the end of the day. I expect they've already got the paperwork done.

Dems in the house could wait as long as possible and object to every single state as they read out their votes on 12/14. Republicans can be standing by to immediately receive the objection, say "No" and send it back. Longest I can see this lasting is the end of that week, 12/18.

All this time Trump is still president. How do you see Dems stretching this process for another 4 1/2 weeks? When does Pelosi become President?
--

Drew
New currently Republican controlled, but vote blue, decide to appoint new Electors
Immediately court challenge is entered into state court and they will get an injunction until there are hearings. It will make its way up the chain to state supreme court then wend into federal court. That will take time
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I hope that's true
Actually I think the best chance hangs on these two:
Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors.

Congress can't meet to count the votes until after the electors have met. If one or more states are still in court disputing the slate of electors, the House can say that they haven't met.
Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes ... and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates ...

If the House doesn't appoint and present two "tellers" then the Senate can't do anything.

Until someone files with the USSC that the House is refusing to perform their responsibility and the court orders the President of the Senate to read them out anyway.
--

Drew
New gotta remember the rats will start abandoning USS Donny once the election looks to go south
grifters gotta drift once the money train stumbles to a halt
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
     What could possibly go wrong? - (rcareaga) - (19)
         Re: What could possibly go wrong? - (boxley) - (18)
             we are fortunate indeed, here - (rcareaga) - (2)
                 you are and thank you -NT - (boxley)
                 Speaking of encyclopædic.. - (Ashton)
             Congress only needs to be Republican led on 11/4 (or thereabouts) - (drook) - (14)
                 reread the document - (boxley) - (13)
                     Read it yourself - (drook)
                     Not for that they aren't in control. - (malraux) - (11)
                         Ah, but the New congress would decide. - (Another Scott) - (10)
                             Better, but ... - (drook) - (9)
                                 the house can vote to disenfrachise the electors as discussed in 2k -NT - (boxley) - (8)
                                     Details? -NT - (drook) - (7)
                                         via objection - (boxley) - (6)
                                             That only works if the Republicans deliberate - (drook) - (5)
                                                 first the state courts would rule on the matter - (boxley) - (4)
                                                     Explain your timeline - (drook) - (3)
                                                         currently Republican controlled, but vote blue, decide to appoint new Electors - (boxley) - (2)
                                                             I hope that's true - (drook) - (1)
                                                                 gotta remember the rats will start abandoning USS Donny once the election looks to go south - (boxley)

Liver alone, cheese all mine...
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