Indeed. The outlook is not pretty.

Post #433,653 by mmoffitt 4/20/20 8:48:06 AM 4/20/20 8:48:06 AM Reply	Indeed. The outlook is not pretty. If this, this and this doesn't scare the hell out of someone, they're aren't paying attention. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,654 by boxley 4/20/20 10:00:05 AM 4/20/20 10:00:05 AM Reply	why is that scary? If the medics are right, these people will self immunize. If the numbers coming out are right(a large percentage of infections are undetected bringing the death counts into a much lower percentage rate)the risk is lower. Since no one can get off if their ass long enough to get testing gear out to get some real numbers, this may be the second best method to test. Those that want to commingle can take their chances. In Michigan it is hard to see why landscapers must halt work. They are outside, alone doing (to me if I had any money) an essential service. As I get older I don't like crowds so I will still be isolated somewhat. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,655 by mmoffitt 4/20/20 10:35:25 AM 4/20/20 10:35:25 AM Reply	As I said, you aren't paying attention. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,656 by boxley 4/20/20 10:50:56 AM 4/20/20 10:50:56 AM Reply	very much paying attention If they cannot get testing organized or useful in less than six months, what is your plan? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,657 by mmoffitt 4/20/20 11:07:36 AM 4/20/20 11:08:06 AM Reply	This might help you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgRscl2PAAw To be afraid, that is. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again. Edited by mmoffitt April 20, 2020, 11:08:06 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #433,658 by boxley 4/20/20 12:42:49 PM 4/20/20 12:42:49 PM Reply	crap propaganda has been around for years, now what is your plan if they cant get decent testing for 6 months. Fear is not a river in egypt. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,659 by mmoffitt 4/20/20 1:15:36 PM 4/20/20 1:15:36 PM Reply	STAY THE FSCK AT HOME. We won't get our act together until we get the INSANE CLOWN POSSE out of the federal government. The crowd in control now will NEVER get anything accomplished (save for epic levels of graft) for all the reasons Michael Lewis cited. If the spectacularly epic level of incompetence in Trump's government doesn't alarm you, then you, my friend, are brain dead. The only sane response is to shelter in place until the nightmare of the Trump administration is over. The fact that so many knuckle dragging mouth breathers are incapable of understanding that is alarming. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,661 by boxley 4/20/20 1:35:23 PM 4/20/20 1:35:23 PM Reply	so you have an income do you? Many other americans do not if you are in favor of keeping people locked in their houses until Jan 20th 2021 here is a cluex4, starving people with starving kids will start looting long before then shit will get real bad real quick. Now I realize I am very lucky to be able to work from home but many people do not have that option. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,665 by mmoffitt 4/20/20 4:12:32 PM 4/20/20 4:12:32 PM Reply	The needs of the many outweigh ... We could learn something from 1918 and the LA Times (see their front page article today). I am lucky to be able to work from home with (so far) no disruption to my paycheck. I understand that better than anyone. But having people "go back to work" is not the answer right now. Once again, Bernie's got the right idea: "A furloughed German worker retains 90-100% of his salary, while his American counterpart is struggling to obtain unemployment benefits. Unacceptable," Sanders tweeted, linking to a VICE article by journalist Clio Chang contrasting how the U.S. and German governments are responding to the economic downturn caused by the global Covid-19 pandemic. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/20/congress-must-cover-paychecks-every-us-worker-says-sanders-laid-americans-struggle The fact is opening up, for whatever reason, this early is going to cost lives. It will lead (just as it did in 1918) to a second wave of infections. The "Flu Epidemic of 1918" lasted until 1920. Maybe you're comfortable choosing who dies for the sake of a little commerce. Me, not so much. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,666 by boxley 4/20/20 5:02:16 PM 4/20/20 5:02:16 PM Reply	I will be distancing regardless but people with starving kids will rise up "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,667 by boxley 4/20/20 5:05:22 PM 4/20/20 5:05:22 PM Reply	real people, real problems https://www.wlox.com/2020/04/17/long-beach-donut-shop-takes-extra-precautions-after-deciding-reopen/ https://www.wlox.com/2020/04/17/limited-opening-non-essential-businesses-welcomed-news/ "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,670 by Ashton 4/20/20 8:36:53 PM 4/20/20 8:36:53 PM Reply	Real f'ing-Virus, unReal governance, ever-Disgusting Repos-in-Charge: what could go Rong (?)
Post #433,687 by mmoffitt 4/21/20 3:14:02 PM 4/21/20 3:14:02 PM Reply	As if to underscore your comment... Barr: Justice department may join lawsuits against lockdowns Attorney general William Barr raised the possibility that the justice department may eventually join lawsuits against stay-at-home orders if states repeatedly extend them. “We have to give businesses more freedom to operate in a way that’s reasonably safe,” Barr said on The Hugh Hewitt Show today. “To the extent that governors don’t and impinge on either civil rights or on the national commerce – our common market that we have here – then we’ll have to address that.” Barr went on to add, “We’re looking carefully at a number of these rules that are being put into place ... And if we think one goes too far, we initially try to jawbone the governors into rolling them back or adjusting them. And if they’re not and people bring lawsuits, we file statement of interest and side with the plaintiffs.” Barr’s comments come days after Trump called on states under stay-at home orders – specifically Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia – to be liberated, echoing messaging from right-wing protesters. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/21/coronavirus-us-live-trump-temporarily-bans-immigration-cuomo-massachusetts-hotspot-new-york-latest-news-updates?page=with:block-5e9f35698f08e5935f266459#block-5e9f35698f08e5935f266459 Far too many people in this country are allowed to vote. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,684 by lincoln 4/21/20 1:29:16 PM 4/21/20 1:29:16 PM Reply	donut shops are now "essential businesses"? not according to my dictionary Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #433,692 by boxley 4/21/20 5:16:19 PM 4/21/20 5:16:19 PM Reply	we do not have an essential business order in place food is an essential business, but as of monday anyone can open any business with takeout and curbside service with established limits on occupency "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,699 by rcareaga 4/21/20 8:28:03 PM 4/21/20 8:28:03 PM Reply	“Those that want to commingle can take their chances” And those to whom they are exposed must perforce take their chances as well. Jeebus, box, don’t you have some doorknobs you need to lick?
Post #433,700 by boxley 4/21/20 9:02:48 PM 4/21/20 9:02:48 PM Reply	And those to whom they are exposed etc you sweeping vagrants out of your driveway again? simple, if you shelter in place you wont be running into them. If you go out wear a mask, don't go into a crowded store, wipe the gaspump before you gas up. Its not that hard. you are probably one of those who fear that it is spread by farts aren't you? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,702 by rcareaga 4/21/20 9:10:06 PM 4/21/20 9:10:06 PM Reply	We will have occasion to see by the numbers …how the relaxing of “social distancing” proceeds over the coming weeks and months. As to them who venture carelessly out, and spread the joy? They’re probably not doing much in the way of prophylactic measures. They’re some of them going to get sick in the name of freedumb, and will expose others who, perhaps, have only gone out for minimal supplies and services. But don’t let that trouble you, box.
Post #433,703 by scoenye 4/22/20 7:48:08 AM 4/22/20 7:48:08 AM Reply	Conservative solidarity You know, "you'll help me even if it hurts you" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52359100 Meanwhile Christian Yingling, a former commanding officer of the Pennsylvania Light Foot militia, called the protest "an acceptable risk". "I'm gonna do what I got to do to feed my family," he said. "If it means I got to risk my health then so be it… and yes even potentially the health of others.
Post #433,704 by mmoffitt 4/22/20 9:50:01 AM 4/22/20 9:50:01 AM Reply	I'd send flamethrowers to these protests. But that might just be some leftover Leninist in me. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,709 by drook 4/22/20 12:50:40 PM 4/22/20 12:50:40 PM Reply	Not surprising Jax Weaver and her 7-year-old daughter at the Austin rally: “I’m not worried about catching the virus. If we did catch the virus, I feel that we’re healthy enough to fight it.” -- Drew
Post #433,705 by boxley 4/22/20 10:41:16 AM 4/22/20 10:41:16 AM Reply	won't trouble me unless there is a vector to infect someone practicing stringent protections mask in public, bleach wipes in store and wipe down all surfaces with bleach wipes while touching same. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,711 by drook 4/22/20 12:59:36 PM 4/22/20 12:59:36 PM Reply	How tight is your circle? I see my immediate family every day without masks. If one of us is exposed, odds are all of us are exposed. That's my circle. If my 8-year-old is playing in the back yard, sees a neighbor kid and runs over before we can stop her, now their whole family is in my circle. If they had the grandparents babysit Saturday, now they're in my circle. If the grandparents went to a rally last week because Trump told them to liberate Ohio, now all of them are in my circle. Tell me again how there's no vector for my 84-year-old mother-in-law to get it? -- Drew
Post #433,716 by boxley 4/22/20 5:12:15 PM 4/22/20 5:12:15 PM Reply	walk in the door, bleach hands, wipe face same rules for everyone unless someone is hacking a lugie into your face social distancing will cover it in most cases. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,721 by drook 4/22/20 7:11:27 PM 4/22/20 7:11:27 PM Reply	Re: most cases Human intuition doesn't handle incidents with low probability but high risk. I agree that your list handles "most cases". But I only need one of the six people living in this house to be on the wrong side of "most" and we've all got it. -- Drew
Post #433,722 by boxley 4/22/20 9:10:45 PM 4/22/20 9:11:17 PM Reply	that would be the case whether your area stays is lockdown or starts opening up the only difference is that a soft open would mitigate https://www.motherjones.com/food/2020/04/these-photos-show-the-staggering-food-bank-lines-across-america/ "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman Edited by boxley April 22, 2020, 09:11:17 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #433,718 by Ashton 4/22/20 5:19:19 PM 4/22/20 5:19:20 PM Reply	..as told to Bogart in 'Maltese Falcon', "You're a fellow of nice judgments..." (just before the Fat-man's Heavy kicks the shit outta Bogie). Awards here: +9 for sweet-Reason ..compressed to 5 words! +10 for Restraint in-face-of: what could easily evoke n-snarks, abegging. But actually methinks that: Box's triage accords with my own evaluation, taken exactly as phrased. Except: sans your elegant, "Yes.. But.."? --there Will Be collateral damage [Military-euphemism-grade], however that aim is applied: is it not a classic [n!] Problem? this Pandemic of Apocalypses. tl;dr a Bitchin riposte :-)
Post #433,708 by lincoln 4/22/20 12:33:15 PM 4/22/20 12:33:15 PM Reply	Re: And those to whom they are exposed etc Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897

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