All you need to know about the Apple phone encryption case

Post #408,277 by drook 2/24/16 12:00:06 AM 2/24/16 12:00:06 AM Reply	All you need to know about the Apple phone encryption case http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8788473&cid=51569521 -- Drew
Post #408,278 by boxley 2/24/16 12:10:43 AM 2/24/16 12:10:44 AM Reply	gumment uber alles, you have no right to remain silent always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #408,347 by dmcarls 2/25/16 4:10:34 PM 2/25/16 4:10:34 PM Reply	Cringley's take... The FBI v. Apple isn’t at all the way you think it is http://www.cringely.com/2016/02/19/the-fbi-v-apple-isnt-at-all-the-way-you-think-it-is/ and a good movie for you paranoids! (Safe House, 1998) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120051/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3
Post #408,348 by Another Scott 2/25/16 4:23:30 PM 2/25/16 4:23:30 PM Reply	Interesting. Thanks.
Post #408,349 by drook 2/25/16 4:34:51 PM 2/25/16 4:34:51 PM Reply	That's some high-stakes poker, if true -- Drew
Post #408,354 by scoenye 2/25/16 7:44:58 PM 2/25/16 7:44:58 PM Reply	If so, maybe that autopsy should be reconsidered... With barely 3 days between him croaking and the order being filed, maybe he got a little help after all. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/feds-want-apples-help-to-defeat-encrypted-phones-new-legal-case-shows/ The Feds have been taking this road for over a year. The difference is that the earlier motions ordered "reasonable effort" while the current one tells them explicitly what to do and how to go about it. They want something that runs from RAM without modifying iOS, so in essence, an app that can disable the software security features. Good luck keeping that confined to one device. And, AFAIK, he's plain wrong about the backups. The backup key is also based on the inaccessible hardware key. The only way to avoid brute forcing the lot is to restore them to the same device they originated on.
Post #408,355 by Another Scott 2/25/16 10:49:54 PM 2/25/16 10:49:54 PM Reply	Presumably when Apple was developing this hardware encryption... they presumably had a software emulator or VM or something when they were developing and testing this stuff. I don't think Apple said to their coders: "Here's a gross of iPhones. Don't make too many mistakes when you're coding and testing the encryption stuff - these things don't grow on trees...." ;-) I dunno. But it makes no sense to me that they've developed something that can't be simulated or bypassed. IOW, I wouldn't be surprised if there was provision for a "software simulation of the hardware key" during development and that that conceivably could be added back under subpoena. I'm just speculating though. I have no inside information. Cheers, Scott.
Post #408,357 by scoenye 2/26/16 12:14:43 AM 2/26/16 12:14:43 AM Reply	The phones don't brick You just lose the data on the 10th incorrect attempt. The whole thing of not being able to bypass the encryption was Apple's biggest marketing push for the latest incarnations. Even if Apple has emulators, the actual hardware is designed not to release its secrets. I did misread the part covering the backups earlier. Only the user's keychain is protected by the hardware key. The Feds do seem to have the contents, except for the last 6 weeks. But... some smartypants at the FBI had the County reset the password to the iCloud account, so trying to get the phone to make an auto-backup is out. Nice summary of the design: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8756397&cid=51524693 [The separate Secure Enclave is not present on the 5C in question, but it has the precursor present on the main SoC processor.)
Post #408,359 by drook 2/26/16 7:56:37 AM 2/26/16 7:56:37 AM Reply	Here's the (other) thing about this case They know who did it. They know it wasn't part of a larger plot. They know who they were communicating with. They know what websites they were on. What are they allegedly looking for? And by the way, we should probably stop calling them terrorists. They might have thought they had a cause, but so did the OKC bombers, and that's what we call them: "bombers". Stop saying that unlocking this phone is about terrorism. -- Drew
Post #408,395 by scoenye 2/26/16 7:48:20 PM 2/26/16 7:48:20 PM Reply	It is about the legal landgrab Set the precedent that the All Writs Act can be used to make anyone do pretty much anything for any reason (this is a fishing expedition after all.) The Feds have been pushing its envelope for a while and have drawn some pretty stiff rebukes for the overreach. Terrierists!!!1!2 seems to have been the perfect cover to make this push stick. (Ironically, wasn't abuse of Writs of Assistance one of the reasons behind the American Revolution?)
Post #408,404 by a6l6e6x 2/26/16 11:07:46 PM 2/26/16 11:07:46 PM Reply	Now that is a Bingo! Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #408,396 by drook 2/26/16 8:08:21 PM 2/26/16 8:08:21 PM Reply	Conspiracy theory ++ We all know they don't really need Apple to unlock this phone. They can crack it themselves, but want to maintain plausible deniability. And even if they can't crack it, they know this was not part of an organized movement. Unless ... What if they CAN'T crack it, but want criminals to jump through hoops avoiding phones? What if they DON'T know these two were lone nuts and are just trying to avoid a panic? -- Drew
Post #408,398 by Another Scott 2/26/16 8:21:17 PM 2/26/16 8:21:17 PM Reply	I haven't read a lot about this... The thing about having the spooks crack the phone (which they probably can do, given enough time and resources) is that any evidence they collect couldn't be used in court. Having the FBI and/or Apple do it wouldn't raise issues about "sources and methods" which are the no-go line when it comes to national intelligence agencies. There would be ways for the FBI and/or Apple to collect the evidence in a way that could be used in court cases. I think that's the bottom line here - they want evidence they can use to try to convict any other people who may have been involved and contacted after the last iCloud backup... My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #408,399 by scoenye 2/26/16 8:42:59 PM 2/26/16 8:42:59 PM Reply	Except This is about his work phone. They both had personal phones which they destroyed before the attack. Chances that anything useful is on the work phone is rather slim. Plus, any people contacted would be available from the telco/ISP, so that can't be it.
Post #408,401 by Another Scott 2/26/16 8:58:12 PM 2/26/16 8:58:12 PM Reply	They had the phone with them before and after the attack, before they were killed. The Feb 16 court filing (p. 4 of the PDF file). I'm not convinced this is just a fishing expedition or just a desire to set a precedent. Maybe so. We'll see. Cheers, Scott.

Welcome to IWETHEY!