Post #401,548
5/6/15 11:13:33 PM
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Debian Wheezy
I have been forced to move from Debian Squeeze (v6.0) to Debian Wheezy (v7.8), not for any actual need, but due to clients' demands for the "latest and greatest".
I had to make a new .config to recompile the kernel, but that went pretty smoothly - and, wonder of wonders, the latest Digi RealPort drivers installed without complaint. Of course, I had to make extensive changes to my 50 page install and configuration manual.
I had to change my install to use vsftpd instead of wu-ftpd for ftp access, but no big deal.
HOWEVER - Wheesy has NO IDEA WHATEVER HOW TO HANDLE DVD DRIVES! If you are not armed with a nice stiff paper clip to open the DVD door you can't even begin to install it, never mind add software.
You have to use a paperclip poke to open the drive door, change the disk and close the door. If the drive activity light doesn't light up, you have to push the button. Then it will either light up and register the disk, or it may open the door, in which case you shove it back in and then it will register the disk.
The eject command is even better. Eject a DVD and you can't mount another on the same directory. Try to unmount the directory, you get a message that it's not mounted. Put in a disk and try to mount it, it tells you the directory is busy.
At first I thought it might be the brand of DVD drive I'm using - but now I'm working with a brand new Dell PowerEdge server and it has the exact same problems.
I just have a hard time believing this idiocy. Don't the developers ever use CDs or DVDS? Sheesh!
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Post #401,549
5/7/15 12:52:27 AM
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Physical media is so last century
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Post #401,551
5/7/15 1:58:36 AM
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Well, I'm just so last century.
The servers I build are in service at least 10 years, usually without upgrades or maintenance, save maybe a power supply at 5 years. Once in a while one gets something botched up in the OS and needs attention.
I demand physical media, because I know these hot shot programmers have an attention span of a few weeks before they change everything for a new release (often no better than the old release, but all different) and take down the old stuff.
I need to be able to put a machine back in order as it was, with the software it was running, and I have to do it fast. That's the sort of thing I get paid for.
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Post #401,553
5/7/15 3:42:03 AM
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Quality service is so last century
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Post #401,555
5/7/15 7:14:04 AM
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8 GB USB Flash Drives?
They're pretty cheap and should last longer than DVDs and the like (but there are always mortality issues with consumer electronics). I would assume that Debian can see one of those without issues. E.g. SanDisk for under $5. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #401,570
5/7/15 11:19:20 AM
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Re: 8 GB USB Flash Drives?
So I get it on the flash drives from the DVDs? Does apt-cdrom work with flash drives? I don't know.
My clients like to have that nice stack of 10 DVDs in hand as a safety measure in any case. DVDs that represent exactly what was used for the install. Again, these are industrial servers, not home computers, and ability to fix problems fast is essential.
Most of my installs need stuff from 3 to 4 disks of the 10 DVD set.
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Post #401,573
5/7/15 11:39:15 AM
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Dunno. Chicken and egg thing I guess.
I was thinking more along the lines of: Once you get everything setup for a particular set of hardware, "clone" (or whatever) the setup to a bootable USB drive. That way issues with the optical drives shouldn't bite you again. But you have to get it installed first, so ... Yeah, I guess it won't help you much, except maybe as a restore. And if you have to get the DVD working for the install, then it's not really saving you much work (other than the time swapping disks, and maybe faster reads). You're customers realize they're in a world of hurt when you retire, right? ;-) Have you thought about putting all your magic documentation on a server that's backed up by Archive.org when you decide to run off to Fiji? Cheers, Scott.
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Post #401,575
5/7/15 11:55:14 AM
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Yes, I've thought of that.
Each of my clients gets a copy of my 50 page install and configuration manual for the Linux version I've installed.
I have those manuals all the way back to Caldera Linux 2.3 from year 2000 (only 20 pages back then) - and yes, I still maintain a computer running Caldera Linux 2.3, though it will go into semi-retirement in October.
I have considered putting these manuals, and my OS/2 manual, on-line, but I'd have to translate them to html. I probably will, eventually.
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Post #401,603
5/8/15 10:52:17 AM
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The catch is USB booting
I have not tried this on a recent server, but PCs are getting problematic, even if you exclude the UEFI issue.
The PartedMagic Live Linux on a stick was my choice for diagnostic work. That worked well on PCs that are now 5-10 years old but it has become pretty much useless on newer equipment regardless of the OEM. I'm back to using CDs :-/
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Post #401,607
5/8/15 11:06:02 AM
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Really? That's weird and unfortunate.
I haven't tried it myself. I just recently got a refurbished 13" MBP to upgrade J's old 13" black MacBook. Along the way I saw notice about creating a USB-bootable installer for Yosemite, but my feeble attempts at getting it working weren't sufficient. It turns out I didn't need it (of course, I don't remember the details), but I thought that PCs wouldn't have any issues like that these days. They really are continuing down the road toward making these things unfixable, aren't they? :-/ Cheers, Scott.
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Post #401,647
5/9/15 4:44:39 PM
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Sadly so
I mostly deal with HP and Dell. Dells tend to not recognize the device is bootable (i.e. it shows in the boot menu, but when selected, the PC boots off the HDD anyway). The HPs will kick off the boot process but then fail to launch the kernel proper. Some will boot off a USB CD/DVD drive so it appears to be an issue properly recognizing USB mass storage devices.
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Post #401,734
5/13/15 7:36:24 AM
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FWIW, I installed ubuntu on this 16 month old Samsung laptop
using a usb stick. Worked fine.
Maybe stay away from US manufacturers?
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Post #401,752
5/14/15 7:47:14 AM
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You may be on to something there ;-)
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Post #401,559
5/7/15 8:49:45 AM
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Latest and greatest? Wheezy is retired.
Jessie was released last week. (But infected with systemd, so I guess that would make it just latest...)
The DVD issue is weird. I have a number of Wheezy installations. None of them behave that way routinely. I do occasionally run into it on my home desktop PC, but only if I try to eject the drive when an application still has something open. That does seem to confuse it, sometimes.
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Post #401,567
5/7/15 10:52:16 AM
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Fortunately, my clients haven't heard of Jessie.
I shouldn't have to deal with that for another year or so.
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Post #401,564
5/7/15 10:11:40 AM
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Re: Debian Wheezy
Whilst it's really quite bizarre to be installing from optical media these days, I cannot replicate this behaviour.
I have Wheezy installed on a Hyper-V instance and it's ejecting my physical DVD drive just fine. Discs mount where they should, etc.
Query: why did you recompile the kernel?
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Post #401,568
5/7/15 10:54:50 AM
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maybe because it is the hyperv that is controlling the hardware directly
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #401,569
5/7/15 11:06:08 AM
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Why recompile?
I often have to recompile the kernel because the Digi RealPort port server drivers don't like the distribution kernel. In any case, the RealPort drivers want the compile set on the machine for their install.
I also have often had to recompile for special equipment - these are industrial machines, not home computers. I do not know what will be needed in the future, so I am not comfortable shipping a machine that is not ready and tested for recompile.
Recompiling with my own .config also removes heaps and piles of unneeded stuff.
Besides that, my clients insist on mounting FAT media in various ways, and Debian has the wrong character set as default.
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