Excellent point; shall need some pondering..

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Post #400,442

3/26/15 3:45:21 PM

Excellent point; shall need some pondering..

but for the moment, the massively-nested algorithms are unfathomable by human jelloware: in any realistic time frame for decisions.
We have to rely on homo-sap final Deciders, for an unknowable time-frame.

While we're awaiting the First truly comprehensible Fail-Safe Source Code, I aver that: FEELING what is happening, immediately! beats all [word]-exchanges: for deciding whether
you need to cold-cock a loonie sitting next to you? and fly this thing out of trouble or ... just TELL HIM/HER why you are bloody-sure it is a Mistake.
And then cold-cock if you get back gibbering ƒeare-filled nonsense.

We may get "there"; we sure Haven't Yet.

Post #400,446

3/26/15 4:08:02 PM

Look at the latest research on self-driving cars

They're finding that for years we've been solving the wrong problem. We've been trying to take people completely out of the equation until we need them: construction zones with poor/inaccurate markings, unusual weather conditions, unexpected mechanical failure, etc. What they have figured out is that people are really bad at maintaining alertness when completely disconnected from the process.

What works better is a drive-by-wire system where the driver makes general inputs - go, stop, lane change - but the car decides what to do with the engine, brakes and steering. Computers are better and faster than all but the very best drivers at this level of control.

Fly-by-wire systems seem to have learned half that lesson. The pilots provide input saying "go higher" or "turn left" and the system decides what to do with the flaps and engines. But auto-pilot has been in use for so long that we've come to expect it. Maybe it would be better to leave the fine control to the systems but make the pilots actually fly again.

--

Drew

Airbus - again. - (mmoffitt) - (71) - March 24, 2015, 10:02:48 AM EDT

It was an old plane -- 24 yo. - (a6l6e6x) - (3) - March 24, 2015, 12:32:49 PM EDT

That's not old. My airplane is 55 years old! -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 24, 2015, 02:59:29 PM EDT

Yeah, but you don't go up to 40 K feet. - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - March 24, 2015, 05:30:00 PM EDT

Well, if you're going to pick nits. ;0) - (mmoffitt) - March 25, 2015, 08:40:50 AM EDT

And Boeings never crash? - (pwhysall) - (36) - March 24, 2015, 06:55:06 PM EDT

Sure, but for fatal crashes Airbus wins! - (mmoffitt) - (35) - March 25, 2015, 08:33:31 AM EDT

Mein Gott - (malraux) - March 25, 2015, 09:47:06 AM EDT

What a massive margin of victory - (pwhysall) - (33) - March 25, 2015, 09:52:19 AM EDT

Give Airbus a few more years, it'll be larger. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (32) - March 25, 2015, 10:26:55 AM EDT

Will it double? - (pwhysall) - (31) - March 25, 2015, 10:36:59 AM EDT

Will it matter? - (mmoffitt) - (30) - March 25, 2015, 10:46:59 AM EDT

Two. Millionths. Of. A. Percent. - (pwhysall) - (29) - March 25, 2015, 10:53:23 AM EDT

before or after you mined a nostril? -NT - (boxley) - (28) - March 25, 2015, 01:43:09 PM EDT

FOUR millionths of a percent! -NT - (pwhysall) - (27) - March 25, 2015, 04:47:19 PM EDT

thats not much of a booger :-) -NT - (boxley) - March 25, 2015, 09:33:52 PM EDT

Numbers-porn; you're usually not so easily deflected to the simplistic ploy. - (Ashton) - (25) - March 26, 2015, 04:50:54 AM EDT

Hardware can't guarantee that one knows what the other is doing. - (Another Scott) - (14) - March 26, 2015, 08:15:46 AM EDT

especially when one pilot is locked out the cockpit and the other has no response -NT - (boxley) - March 26, 2015, 09:26:40 AM EDT

Coupled controls *do* help, though. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - March 26, 2015, 11:21:06 AM EDT

[citation needed] - (pwhysall) - (5) - March 26, 2015, 11:50:15 AM EDT

Read with comprehension much? - (mmoffitt) - (4) - March 26, 2015, 01:01:47 PM EDT

Just answer the question. - (pwhysall) - (3) - March 26, 2015, 01:21:03 PM EDT

Okay. I'll play. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 26, 2015, 02:59:27 PM EDT

Assertion. - (pwhysall) - (1) - March 26, 2015, 03:47:09 PM EDT

You brought up a question *I* did NOT make a comment about. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 26, 2015, 04:50:23 PM EDT

'The side stick vs yoke issue is red herring, IMO.' [Fail] - (Ashton) - (5) - March 26, 2015, 03:34:05 PM EDT

Flying - no. - (Another Scott) - (4) - March 26, 2015, 04:15:31 PM EDT

And doing that makes *all* the planes safer -NT - (drook) - March 26, 2015, 04:39:05 PM EDT

Nobody's ever claimed that! - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 26, 2015, 05:02:01 PM EDT

You did read the rest of my post, right? - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 26, 2015, 06:20:21 PM EDT

So coupling the controls was too expensive? - (mmoffitt) - March 27, 2015, 08:50:39 AM EDT

Appealing to facts not in evidence - (pwhysall) - (9) - March 26, 2015, 09:48:23 AM EDT

You're in-lurve with modrin TLAs like "CRM"--as if That 'cooks the rice' - (Ashton) - (8) - March 26, 2015, 03:12:43 PM EDT

Thought experiment - (drook) - (2) - March 26, 2015, 03:22:40 PM EDT

Excellent point; shall need some pondering.. - (Ashton) - (1) - March 26, 2015, 03:45:21 PM EDT

Look at the latest research on self-driving cars - (drook) - March 26, 2015, 04:08:02 PM EDT

OH NOES A MODERN TLA! IT MUST BE SHIT AND RUBBISH - (pwhysall) - (3) - March 26, 2015, 03:45:48 PM EDT

Yep, two Boeings wrecked by a European. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1) - March 26, 2015, 05:07:06 PM EDT

And this is why you fail. -NT - (pwhysall) - March 26, 2015, 06:43:39 PM EDT

(The CRM idea isn't bollocks, of course) But as a deflection of this issue: - (Ashton) - March 28, 2015, 08:05:05 AM EDT

Dupe - (pwhysall) - March 26, 2015, 03:47:53 PM EDT

Horrible image. - (mmoffitt) - March 25, 2015, 09:08:56 AM EDT

Pilot error indeed - (malraux) - (28) - March 26, 2015, 10:15:16 AM EDT

Guess he couldn't live with the fact he wasn't flying a Boeing -NT - (drook) - (26) - March 26, 2015, 10:24:10 AM EDT

Errg. - (Another Scott) - (25) - March 26, 2015, 10:33:43 AM EDT

an assumption is being made that he was unwilling to open he door, he may have been incapacitated -NT - (boxley) - (14) - March 26, 2015, 07:26:59 PM EDT

The autopilot was set to an altitude of 100ft while the pilot was out. -NT - (malraux) - (1) - March 26, 2015, 07:30:37 PM EDT

Re: The autopilot was set to an altitude of 100ft while the pilot was out. - (Nightowl) - March 26, 2015, 07:37:25 PM EDT

That's possible, but unlikely here imo. - (mmoffitt) - (11) - March 27, 2015, 08:46:47 AM EDT

from the latest news it appears that it was deliberate -NT - (boxley) - (10) - March 27, 2015, 10:15:01 AM EDT

Re: from the latest news it appears that it was deliberate - (Nightowl) - (9) - March 27, 2015, 01:39:32 PM EDT

I don't know how Europe does it. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - March 27, 2015, 01:55:51 PM EDT

His response was definitely career ending. -NT - (malraux) - (3) - March 27, 2015, 02:10:32 PM EDT

And an affirmation of the physician's finding. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 27, 2015, 02:11:49 PM EDT

He wanted to go down in spectacular fashion and be remembered - (Nightowl) - March 28, 2015, 12:23:46 AM EDT

Ignore...dupe post. Sorry. -NT - (Nightowl) - March 28, 2015, 12:25:31 AM EDT

Doesn't matter much - (scoenye) - (3) - March 28, 2015, 11:03:38 AM EDT

Excellent points. - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 28, 2015, 11:20:30 AM EDT

Share your unrealistic hopes.. because one. must. - (Ashton) - March 28, 2015, 05:19:54 PM EDT

Flying amortization -vs- Student Loans - (Ashton) - March 28, 2015, 05:53:13 PM EDT

Could be you win the thread - (rcareaga) - (9) - March 30, 2015, 12:47:28 PM EDT

That and being deemed unfit to fly. - (Nightowl) - March 30, 2015, 07:57:01 PM EDT

There are more differences between how the Europeans do it and we than I realized. - (mmoffitt) - (7) - March 31, 2015, 10:15:35 AM EDT

blame it on the nazis - (crazy) - (1) - March 31, 2015, 03:37:12 PM EDT

That's a tough one -NT - (drook) - March 31, 2015, 05:11:25 PM EDT

NYT sez that.. some slack is cut though, even here. - (Ashton) - March 31, 2015, 06:30:17 PM EDT

Zero tolerance is superficially appealing... - (pwhysall) - (3) - April 1, 2015, 08:17:59 AM EDT

This. - (Another Scott) - (2) - April 1, 2015, 08:27:40 AM EDT

Alternates for pilots? - (Ashton) - (1) - April 1, 2015, 03:23:19 PM EDT

Well said. People do need alternatives rather than being kicked to the curb... -NT - (Another Scott) - April 1, 2015, 05:59:57 PM EDT

Eerie earlier crash. - (Another Scott) - March 26, 2015, 02:02:55 PM EDT

It's only a few more levels till we're throwing lions to the lawyers in arena combat.
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