One for the "They all suck equally!" crowd[*].

Post #382,279 by CRConrad 10/17/13 7:19:14 AM Reply	One for the "They all suck equally!" crowd[]. From http://driftglass.bl...ding-right-1.html [+]:</a> So what is the last lie a Conservative tells himself? The last lie that the junkies and their suppliers both fight like hell to keep alive and twitching? That, whether or not their ideology is depraved or deluded, it doesnÂt matter because: ÂBoth side are always equally wrong about everything all the time.Â Five years ago. Good thing he re-posted it yesterday. []: "Crowd" of one? Yes, BOx, that's you I'm looking at. [+]: d r i f t g l a s s: Understanding the Right #1 -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #382,281 by boxley 10/17/13 8:14:32 AM Reply	betcha had a nice wank while reading that tripe lets see, Clinton bestus reagan worstus bush bleargh, drugs, crack,time for a tissue Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,282 by CRConrad 10/17/13 8:25:38 AM Reply	Yup; just like he says. Like Brooks and Sullivan and Frum and all the rest of them: You put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and yodel: "La laa laa la, I can't hear you, twenty years of Repo bullshit doesn't exist, they're all equally bad, la laa laa la, I can't heeeaaar yooouuu... The only "wank" and "tripe" here is your stupid bullshit. Really. You're working so hard at blinding yourself to the fact that you're working hard at blinding yourself, it's no fucking wonder you can't see reality. -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #382,283 by boxley 10/17/13 8:31:35 AM Reply	why dont you read something useful every now and again? you read crap like that, you nod in agreement and present it as fact, Sounds like a Hannity fanboi to me. http://www.forbes.co...no-health-plan/2/ This is the kind of policy detail that easily could have been negotiated had the Democrats been in a cooperative mood in 2007. They were not. On the contrary, President BushÂs health plan was declared Âdead on arrivalÂ by Democrats in 2007. gee does that sound familiar? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,285 by Another Scott 10/17/13 8:47:28 AM Reply	Messing with the tax code is not a health care plan. Really? Forbes is your evidence? Why not just point us to Heritage? http://www.heritage....h-tax-reform-plan Making Health Care Affordable: Bush's Bold Health Tax Reform Plan By Stuart M. Butler, Ph.D. and Nina Owcharenko President Bush's proposal to reform the tax treatment of health care takes a bold step toward fixing America's health care system by widening the availability of affordable and "portable" health plans available to Americans and by defusing some of the pressure that currently leads to higher health costs. It is a sound basis for a serious discussion on how the tax treatment of health care should be reformed, consistent with good tax policy. [...] Yeah, messing with the tax code fixes everything. Always does. <sigh> Oh, you mean it doesn't? http://www.commonwea...nce-Coverage.aspx Cheers, Scott.
Post #382,291 by boxley 10/17/13 10:45:26 AM Reply	what do you think obama care is? It gives you a tax credit to buy insurance or makes you pay a fine if you don't. All the time destroying decent healthcare plans by pushing the deductibles into the thousands of dollars for a family while keeping the monthly costs the same. Unless you are in a Union or a government employee then you are exempt. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,292 by drook 10/17/13 10:58:59 AM Reply	Was there anything about what was covered? eg: Pre-existing conditions? Requirements to cover regardless of prior medical history? -- Drew
Post #382,293 by boxley 10/17/13 11:06:27 AM Reply	yes Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,294 by Another Scott 10/17/13 12:20:43 PM Reply	Meh. There were lots of health care reform proposals in the 2000s. http://en.wikipedia....#Bush_era_debates Bush's was weak. It wouldn't have covered (nearly) everyone. It was full of magic asterisks. http://www.washingto...29-2004Aug21.html It was yet-more-tax-cuts-will-solve-everything, let-the-private-market-solve-the-problem, do-everything-we-can-to-keep-a-sensible-universal-plan-from-being-implemented plan. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #382,300 by boxley 10/17/13 3:48:45 PM Reply	"Affordable Choices" grants ring a bell? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,314 by folkert 10/17/13 9:17:51 PM Reply	HAHAHAHA! -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #382,319 by boxley 10/18/13 12:25:40 AM Reply	tea party chimes in Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,333 by folkert 10/18/13 11:10:44 AM Reply	Not a tea party member, if you haven't noticed. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #382,357 by drook 10/18/13 4:55:30 PM Reply	It didn't But since this thread hasn't died yet I thought I'd go look it up. Here's the story: http://www.democrati...dress=102x2744259 Bush spotlights rising health care costs By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 48 minutes ago WASHINGTON - President Bush is not giving up on his call to overhaul the tax code for those who buy health insurance. The president focused his attention again on the topic after a recent government report projected that health care spending would double by the year 2016. Analysts say current tax policy is contributing to the increase in spending through incentives that favor more comprehensive and expensive health benefits. The president has proposed treating health insurance contributions as income, which would cause workers' taxable wages to shoot up dramatically. But the president then calls for a standard tax deduction for those who buy health insurance Â $15,000 for family coverage and $7,500 for individual coverage. So, the key to getting a tax cut will be to keep the cost of the policy below the size of the new deduction. The prospect of a tax cut would serve as a huge incentive for people to spend less on health insurance. Democratic leaders were quick to criticize the plan. But more recently, a group of 10 senators Â five Republicans and five Democrats Â wrote the president and told him they agreed that current tax rules for health insurance disproportionately favor the rich while promoting inefficiency. And http://www.democrati...ddress=389x280401 Bush tauts same wine --different label: "Affordable Choices" The president said he also wants to support governors who come up with innovative ways to help their citizens get insurance coverage. Under his proposal, states that put in place a basic health plan for all of their citizens would get access to what he calls "affordable choice grants." The grant money would come from programs that now reimburse providers when they care for the indigent. "By taking existing federal funds and turning them into Affordable Choices grants, we will give America's governors more money and more flexibility, so they can help provide private health insurance for those who need it most," Bush said. So the plan, as I understand it, was to eliminate an existing un-capped tax benefit and replace it with a capped one, thereby encouraging people to buy less-expensive coverage. With no mechanism that I can see to regulate what must be covered, that (in practice) means encouraging people to buy less coverage. Is that about the size of it? -- Drew
Post #382,360 by CRConrad 10/18/13 5:16:10 PM Reply	Darn, you put a question mark at the end of that! All it takes is a loud "Yess, dammit!" from the BOx, and after that he'll think he can claim to have "answered" your misgivings in the sense of having proved his point of view. Or something; that's how his reasoning seems to go. -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #382,400 by boxley 10/19/13 6:58:58 PM 10/19/13 7:02:29 PM Reply	from your quote Under his proposal, states that put in place a basic health plan for all of their citizens would get access to what he calls "affordable choice grants." universal basic health for all would include prior conditions and come closer to universal health care that what we have now. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep Edited by boxley Oct. 19, 2013, 07:02:29 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #382,402 by drook 10/19/13 7:13:49 PM Reply	So it would have been up to the states And we see how well that's working. Thanks for confirming there was no plan with a reasonable expectation of leading to better coverage. -- Drew
Post #382,425 by boxley 10/20/13 6:46:39 PM Reply	So it would have been up to the states So is the well poobah'ed expansion of medicare that others so loudly trumpet as a gleaming bastion of Obama's healthcare plan. No different which is why many states turned it down because they could see the money supply dropping off in the future. Exactly the same plan but a democrat put it on the table so the democrats voted for it this time. Could have had the same thing under shrub, the usual first we are for it, then we are against it that ALL sides play in DC As far as leaving it up to the states, tell me how many Health Insurance companies operate outside of state lines and are federal? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,426 by drook 10/20/13 6:48:28 PM Reply	What happens when the states decline? What happened under Bush's plan? -- Drew
Post #382,428 by boxley 10/20/13 6:50:34 PM Reply	Same as happened under Obama's plan, the same thing Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,431 by Another Scott 10/20/13 8:32:38 PM Reply	You're taking the feel-good words at face value. http://money.cnn.com...posal_effect/#not Who might not be affected much if at all by the deduction? Many low-income and uninsured people. According to Treasury Department and White House estimates, the proposal would reduce the number of uninsured by 3 million to 5 million people. That number is low relative to the total number of uninsured (over 46 million) for two reasons primarily: - 43 percent of the uninsured have no income tax liability, according to Kaiser Family Foundation. But they would still get a payroll tax credit on the wages they earn if they buy health insurance. - Many uninsured still won't be able to afford coverage even with the new deduction. (More than 50 percent of the uninsured are in the 15 percent tax bracket or less). Others won't want to part with the cost of insurance premiums up front, even though they'll get it back on their tax return. To provide more of the uninsured with coverage, President Bush is also proposing the Affordable Choices Initiative. Although details are still sketchy, the program would offer funding to states that reform their insurance market so as to provide affordable basic coverage for all. The federal funds would be redirected from other programs to help states subsidize coverage for low-income people. So, no new money for more-universal coverage. Unsurprisingly, the program would have done almost nothing to expand coverage. The part of the program that was fleshed out won't help 43% of those without insurance. The part that would supposedly help those who don't earn enough for the tax break to help is left as a magic asterisk. Some TBD "funding for our program with the nice name" to the states is exactly the same as expanded Medicaid eligibility. Yeah, it was just as good as Obamacare. To think we could have had that years ago!!111 <sigh> Cheers, Scott.
Post #382,286 by CRConrad 10/17/13 8:56:11 AM Reply	This, from mr World News Daily?!? 1) There you go again, La laa laa la... "had the Democrats been in a cooperative mood" = "They're just as bad". 2) "Read something useful"? This was Forbes, a magazine of the 0.1%, by the 1%, for the 10%, to make them believe that the interests of the 0.1% are the interests of the 10%. Seems you've bought into that. That's the opposite of "useful", for you: It's you making yourself a "useful idiot" for the 0.1%. 3) I noticed that it was all about tax credits, not insurance for everybody. 4) Next to the article there was a teaser for another one: "Opposing Obamacare is No Longer Enough: Toward A New Conservative..." So, it's not that they're going to stop opposing it; that's just _not enough_, so they gotta do something else, too, while continuing to oppose it. Which they'd hardly do in the first place if it was identical to their own proposal from 2007, now would they? So, no, wrong again, four different ways from Friday. What does it take to wake you up from your Teabagger zombiehood? -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #382,290 by boxley 10/17/13 10:42:48 AM Reply	pop quiz, name the last republican I voted for and the last democrat in the presidential elections? The teabagger lives in Michigan and posts in half caps all the time. 3) I noticed that it was all about tax credits, not insurance for everybody how stupid are you,? Obama care doesnt provide Insurance for anybody, it gives you a tax credit if you buy and you qualify or it forces you to pay an additional tax for not buying. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,295 by Another Scott 10/17/13 12:21:19 PM Reply	Medicaid expansion is a nothingburger?
Post #382,298 by boxley 10/17/13 3:43:35 PM Reply	foodstamp expansion is a nothingburger? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,299 by boxley 10/17/13 3:44:21 PM Reply	unemplyment insurance extentions is a nothingburger? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,301 by Another Scott 10/17/13 3:57:13 PM Reply	Re: unemplyment insurance extentions is a nothingburger? ? Obama care doesnt provide Insurance for anybody, it gives you a tax credit if you buy and you qualify or it forces you to pay an additional tax for not buying. Medicare expansion, a big part of Obamacare, is direct insurance from the government. I think that contradicts your statement. I'm not sure what you're getting at with your replies. More words please. Cheers, Scott.
Post #382,305 by boxley 10/17/13 4:42:24 PM Reply	medicare expansion is a very small part of the tax credits, extra taxes imposed on the financial bill that is obamacare and if you look at the bottom of any Doctors responsibility for payment form it asks the question Do you have Insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid? So its not quite the same as. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,306 by Another Scott 10/17/13 4:52:37 PM Reply	We seem to be talking past each other. Bush's "health care" proposal was smoke and mirrors and magic asterisks to throw big tax deductions at favored people. The WaPo piece shows that it would have done very little to actually insure people. Yes, Obamacare has changes to the tax code. And horror of horrors, it actually pays for itself by collecting some taxes and reducing some overpayments. The point remains, though, that Bush's proposal wasn't comprehensive and didn't cover as many people as anything that claims to be a quasi-universal health insurance scheme would do. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #382,308 by boxley 10/17/13 5:03:55 PM Reply	Re: We seem to be talking past each other. think that wapo piece is heavily biased and that you would consider any republican legislation of that time to be " smoke and mirrors and magic asterisks to throw big tax deductions at favored people" Since all of the deductions and credits were aimed at those making less than 60k per year, apparently that left too many rich people who were making almost 60k a year for your taste buds. YMMV Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,326 by CRConrad 10/18/13 3:38:39 AM Reply	Debunked by Drew above, at 17:58:59 yesterday. So, how stupid are YOU? (Judging from how you refuse to stop being a UI for your owners even after being alerted to this being what you are doing, quite a bit.) -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #382,337 by boxley 10/18/13 12:47:24 PM Reply	hardly, asked and answered Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,341 by CRConrad 10/18/13 2:05:10 PM Reply	Hardly what? And what was asked and answered? You mean how Droo answered your stupid "Isn't Obamacare all about tax credits too?", or what? Yeah, that hardly makes you less of an UI... What, wasn't that what you meant by "hardly"? If not, then what? It's one thing brevity being the soul of whit, and all that, but there can be too much of a good thing. Ever more terseness doesn't make your scibblings ever more witty; after a certain point they just become unintelligible. -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #382,345 by Another Scott 10/18/13 3:24:35 PM Reply	s /whit/wit Cheers, Scott. (Who never imagined he'd be able to correct CRC on his English!!)
Post #382,351 by CRConrad 10/18/13 3:48:40 PM Reply	Ever more whitty... Were the H did that come from?!?!?!?!?!?
Post #382,354 by folkert 10/18/13 3:50:53 PM Reply	+1!!! -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #382,349 by Ashton 10/18/13 3:41:11 PM Reply	Perhaps they're not meant to be 'understood'.. ..merely reviled? (Umm masochists often do skits like that; ... 'ya suppose? Nahh--they at least enjoy bein whupped around.)
Post #382,350 by boxley 10/18/13 3:42:17 PM Reply	he didnt answer, he asked a question, the answer was yes Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #382,355 by CRConrad 10/18/13 3:59:07 PM Reply	Ah, OK: Drew put his debunking in the shape of a question -- -- a purely rhetorical "question" -- and you answered in the affirmative; i.e, ADMITTED THAT HIS DEBUNKING WAS CORRECT. SO WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, trying the same scam again all over with me, if you then go (ever so cryptically) bragging about how you've already been debunked?!? Did you really think "Hey, but can you answer this? And by the way, he already did!" would actually support your "this" (whateverthefuck it was again; who cares, any more...)?!? Because if you did, you really need to take a course or three in Remedial Kindergarten Logic, 'coz it seems you just flunked that with bells on. -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)

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