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New I have a hard time believing that one.
Both of my sons were raised by the same people in the same way. With respect to personality they are as different as night and day.

My eldest showed a number of his most enduring personality traits at a very, very young age as well.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Re: I have a hard time believing that one.
You know what the problem is? Not enough cuttlebone in the elder one's diet.

And you did give the younger one a mirror with a bell on it as soon as he could peck.
New "Personality" may be the wrong word.
Genetic and foster-parents’ exploratory type was measured in a novel environment pre-breeding and offspring exploratory type was assessed at adulthood. Offspring exploratory type was predicted by the exploratory behaviour of the foster but not the genetic parents, whereas offspring size was predicted by genetic but not foster-parents’ size.


They looked at one aspect of the adult behavior - "exploratory type". I don't think it's surprising that if a bird is raised by parents that explore a lot, then they'll more likely explore a lot.

How much of this transfers to humans is anyone's guess. But nurture makes more gut-level sense to me than a possible "gregarious" gene (for example) that dominates our personality. It makes more sense to me when it comes to dog behavior, too. The neurotic dogs I've come across have had obviously traumatic puppy-hoods.

One has to start somewhere in trying to figure out the nature/nurture relative importance, though. This seems like good incremental step.

As for why your kids are different - good question. I'm very different from my brother as well; but J and her twin sister have pretty big personality differences too (at least in some areas). It's a very large space of potential variables.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New 3 most aggressive dog breeds..
http://www.dogguide....ull-be-surprised/

It wasn't a very well done study... but from my step mother having both Dachshunds and Chihuahuas... until they bit her repeatedly.
--
greg@gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
New Next door has a chihuahua
Yappy little shite. Bored, most likely. They never tell her what to do - it's just:

Bella: bark bark bark
Owner: Bella! Bella!
Bella (thinking): Cool, that's my name. Attention is great! Let's do that some more!
Bella: bark bark bark bark bark
Owner: Bella! Bella!
Peter (thinking): STOP SAYING THE DOG'S NAME AND TELL HER WHAT TO FUCKING DO

I bet the problem is that people just don't bother socialising or training these dogs because they see them as toys, not pets that need effort. Result: yappy snappy little bastards.
New The small Yappers are the worst...
I was attacked by a York Terrier, I believe it was, on June 1st, while surveying serious storm damage in my parent's neighborhood.

It came charging at me all teeth and fur and I just knew it was going to bite me. And I've learned that standing still does not stop the smaller dogs one iota.

So when it reached me, and I felt it's feet on the back of my leg, I kicked backwards as hard as I could at the dog, and then ran up my mom's neighbor's driveway and vaulted into the back of a pickup truck.

The worst part? The teenagers who let the dog loose, know that it bites, and they did nothing to stop it, or call it back, they simply laughed at me trying to get away.

Never trust those smaller dogs. I hated to have to kick it off me, but at least I didn't get bit.

Brenda
___________________________________________________________________
When asking God for a break, be sure to specify what KIND you want!
New Hell no.
The big dogs that can bite your head clean off, they're what you want to worry about.

You did exactly the wrong thing here, Brenda; you did NOT know it was going to bite you. You assumed that it was, because you obviously are not a dog person.

If its feet were on you, it was (noisily, rudely, very badly) greeting you.

And then you kicked it.

If that had been my dog, at that point you would have had more to worry about than an ill-mannered and boisterous Yorkie.

No, the dog should not have been loose. No, the dog should not have run at you. No, the teens should not have laughed at you. But you handled the situation very badly.

"Never trust those smaller dogs". Ridiculous. Like people, you take each dog as you find it.
New Re: Hell no.
Well, it's bitten several people already who did stand still. Sorry, I forgot to put that in the first post. And it doesn't bite once, it bites you several times at once.

And I've been bitten by smaller dogs in the past by standing still, also more than one bite, so I wasn't taking a chance. I didn't hurt it when I kicked back, I'm not even sure I connected with it, just got it to get away from me. It didn't yelp or anything.

My experience with larger dogs, is if I stand still and respect them, they respect me, and stand still and just growl until they walk away or get distracted. Even huge Doberman Pinschers. Never yet been bitten by a larger dog.

Maybe the smaller ones sense my fear since I've been bitten by them so much.

Brenda
___________________________________________________________________
When asking God for a break, be sure to specify what KIND you want!
Expand Edited by Nightowl June 14, 2013, 04:28:31 PM EDT
Expand Edited by Nightowl June 14, 2013, 04:31:52 PM EDT
New Brenda, c'mon.
A single dog bite will get an animal put down over here. So hearing that there's a dog that's bitten several people already (and I suspect the definition of "bite" might be getting stretched out to "well it sure looked like it was going to bite me") for the apparent amusement of its owners, well. Why didn't anyone call the dog pound or the police after the first bite?

I spend a lot of time with dogs ranging in size from teacup yorkies to newfies (all our friends have dogs, there are dogs in the pub, there are dogs in the park where we walk our dogs, etc), and I can't remember the last time I was bitten. Literally. Cannot remember. It's been decades.

And yet you're terrified of dogs (Dobermanns aren't "huge", they're "regular"); the small ones smell your fear, and they take every opportunity to feast on your tender flesh.

If one dog bites you, that's the dog's/owners fault. If dogs keep biting you, that's your fault.
New The police were called by the lady he bit.
The dog was taken away for I think it was 12 days, for observation and returned to the home. The lady that was bit who called the police, was simply getting out of her car in her own driveway.Others didn't file a report, but if he bites anyone else, they say they will. He didn't bite me, so I don't think I qualify to report it.

I haven't been bitten in years, since I learned to run from smaller dogs. The last time I was bitten was when we moved here in 1997, and our new neighbor's dog charged me shortly after we'd moved in. She told me to stand still, and I tried, but he bit me three or four times anyway.

And maybe Dobermans are average, I'm not certain, but the two named Baron and Haley that live next door to us, can actually stand on their hind legs with their paws on your shoulders.

I'm still scared of them, but I have learned to throw dog biscuits and things towards them when they get excited, and they have finally settled down. Once Baron got out of his yard though, and I was stunned to come out my door and find him watching me in my garage! I was really calm, and told him I didn't have any dog bones on me at the moment. He growled softly, and I took a breath and softly encouraged him to go home.

Fortunately, he was distracted for a second, and I dived for my door and got back into my house as he started barking and scratching at the door. I called the neighbor and said "Please come get Baron, ok? He's in my garage."

I never understood why he was growling at me, when we had worked things out with dog bones, unless he was mad I didn't have any to give. Maybe it was because we were both not in our safe environment with a fence between us. ;)

My fear of dogs was not of my doing, and it's mostly of Dobermans or small dogs. That's because one of my playmates in the same court when I was a child, played a mean trick on me and handcuffed me to a pole in his basement with his small doberman named Princer. I was so scared I didn't move for anything, while Princer snarled at me and barked at me, all the while showing his teeth.

His mom discovered me about 2 hours later, and the kid was punished, but it is not an experience I could easily forget.

On Princer's behalf though, his child owner treated him badly, and abused him, even once tied him onto a playground spinning ride and spun him around until he was sick.

I'm not scared of all dogs, but I'm wary of ANY dog I don't know.

Brenda
___________________________________________________________________
When asking God for a break, be sure to specify what KIND you want!
Expand Edited by Nightowl June 14, 2013, 06:55:20 PM EDT
New Sorry - I side with Brenda - strongly.
Around here dogs don't get put down for a single bite, or often until they kill someone.

The proper response, as far as I'm concerned is to kick the stupid thing into the next county.

Dog lovers all think their "sweet wonderful pets" should be allowed to bark and whine all night, snarl threatening at people and even bite them without penalty.

Sorry, I disagree.
New I've heard bad things about Dalmations
being skittish and prone to unexpected aggression.




Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous.
- - - Mark Twain “Pudd’nhead Wilson’s New Calendar,” 1897
New Biggest problem with them?
Deafness, particularly in thoroughbreds.

I had a Dalmatian cross a few years ago.

Absolutely charming dog - well mannered, affectionate, obedient; sadly had to have him put down at the age of two due to severe epilepsy.

But he was a big, strong dog with a lot of energy, and I can understand how easy it would be to cock up training one.

Wife's friend has an 18 month old boxer who's the most delightful chap, but said friend has been somewhat delinquent in the training department, so George gets to do what he likes, when he likes. This makes walking him without being dragged along in a graceless manner somewhat challenging. Unfortunately he has kidney problems which make it unlikely that he'll see the age of five.
New :-( Sorry about your pup.
(I thought that something had happened since you didn't talk about him much after you showed us some pictures. :-(

Sophie has epilepsy too. She only has a seizure infrequently (usually ~ 6-9 months apart) - her last was last Friday. So far it hasn't been a major issue, but we do worry. (She's 7 now.)

Losing a pet is always tough. Treasure the good memories.

Cheers,
Scott.
New No problems
It was four years ago now; we've got two Yorkies these days.

Who aren't yappy or snappy and have good dog manners, because this shit really isn't difficult :)
New Bah, bull, as always a question of definitions.
If you define "not difficult" as "any moron like you or me can/could do it", then no, perhaps it isn't. If you go by the real-world definition, though, "do most frigging morons seem to be able to do it?", then it must obviously be difficult as all Hell.

And never mind their fucking dogs -- although I'm still of the opinion that if I'm not allowed to shoot any dog whose owner doesn't scoop the poop, then the reason for that should only be because I ought to go after the party responsible and shoot the fucking owner in stead, but... -- Uh, where was I? Oh, yes: Never mind their fucking dogs, to see how impossible it apparantly is to impart some fucking manners, you only have to look to most people's children.

Which, all in all, leads me to side with Brenda and the Gryge: If those smaller breeds in practice don't get socialized (because their owners "regard them as toys in stead of pets" or for whatever fucking reason, it doesn't matter), then dogs of those breeds are in practice more likely to be vicious little arseholes. Arsehole is as arsehole does; if a mass murderer is still an arsehole even if he had a deprived childhood of broken handed-down toys, then a snapping biting little furball is still a vicious fucking beast even if it only got "Bella! Bella!" in stead of "Come here! Sit!" as a pup.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Holy fuck, how hard can it be...? Do you know any Italions?
Or Hungarions or Bulgarions?!?

It's DalmatiAns, ferfuxxake!
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Oh... it is such a wondrous day...
To have CRC Error Checking, back!

Nice to have you fully back, working away! I've been missing it!

Edit:
Can't have any punctuation issues changing the meaning.
--
greg@gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Expand Edited by folkert June 15, 2013, 07:19:32 PM EDT
     Sicko from the home town - (lincoln) - (24)
         Pit bulls. - (Andrew Grygus) - (23)
             Because they are also wonderful companion animals - (Ashton) - (22)
                 And that human nastiness starts with breeding. - (Andrew Grygus)
                 friendly and tame unless abused -NT - (boxley) - (20)
                     Yep - (pwhysall) - (19)
                         Along those lines - new study out today. - (Another Scott) - (18)
                             I have a hard time believing that one. - (malraux) - (17)
                                 Re: I have a hard time believing that one. - (pwhysall)
                                 "Personality" may be the wrong word. - (Another Scott)
                                 3 most aggressive dog breeds.. - (folkert) - (14)
                                     Next door has a chihuahua - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                         The small Yappers are the worst... - (Nightowl) - (5)
                                             Hell no. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                 Re: Hell no. - (Nightowl) - (2)
                                                     Brenda, c'mon. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                         The police were called by the lady he bit. - (Nightowl)
                                                 Sorry - I side with Brenda - strongly. - (Andrew Grygus)
                                     I've heard bad things about Dalmations - (lincoln) - (6)
                                         Biggest problem with them? - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                             :-( Sorry about your pup. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                 No problems - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                     Bah, bull, as always a question of definitions. - (CRConrad)
                                         Holy fuck, how hard can it be...? Do you know any Italions? - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             Oh... it is such a wondrous day... - (folkert)

Note for the linguistically-impaired: That was a rhetorical question. (Second note, for the vocabulary-challenged: That means you're not supposed to answer it.)
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