I wonder why we're arguing with each other here?

The basic question is: Does any other OS integrate the web browser into the OS? Microsoft have taken the position that the web browser is somply one aspect of the GUI, which is itslef fully integrated into the OS.

But here we are arguing over which particular part of a Linux distribution deserves to be called the GUI. "The GUI" is so modular and distinct from the OS that we can't even agree on what gets to be called the GUI! On top of the kernel there is (at least) the desktop manager, the window manager, the font renderer (probably) and the ... well I can't think what to call X, because there are desktops that don't even require X.

So there is a module that handles the pointy-clicky-mousish stuff; a module that handles the window widgets; a module that handles font rendering; a module that handles drawing things to the screen; and desktop managers like Gnome, KDE, fvwm and others which may or may not include any combinatin of the above modules, or may provide them itself -- at the user's option.

So instead of agruing about "what is The GUI" on a Linux box, can we just agree that it's pretty clear "The Gui" is not part of "the OS"?

But the worst part is, this:

So there is a module that handles the pointy-clicky-mousish stuff; a module that handles the window widgets; a module that handles font rendering; a module that handles drawing things to the screen; and desktop managers like Gnome, KDE, fvwm and others which may or may not include any combinatin of the above modules, or may provide them itself -- at the user's option.

...bit could probably do with being a little more *integrated*, be it "commingling-a-l-a-Microsoft" or some technically slightly different way.

The stuff you read about on /. and here and all over the 'Net, all the time: "I can't get font manager Q to work with application Z under window manager R and desktop environment Y"; "How do I set up X to allow cut-and-paste between application G and application J under window manager H?", etc... And my own timid experience, of setting up the mouse to be this kind of hardware, button emulation so-and-so, cursor speed and acceleration this-and-that -- first in some X configuration thingy, and then *again* in (because the previous had absolutely ZERO effect under) some desktop environment... That all just sucks so unbelievably, I can only say Bill's minions *do* really do a much better job of it.

And that's probably precisely *because* this, "the GUI", is such a mess of loosely-related but non-integrated bits that you can't even say precisely where it begins and where it ends.

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