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New Can you answer the questions? Are you capable of answering?
Do you know what the word "answer" means?

Answer to the final point. Do you think we would be having this debate >right now< if Israel did not exist?
Thanks, Bill.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, once again, Mr. Patient has demonstrated his inability to recall anything that happened two or more posts earlier.

Go back and read the thread, Bill.

Something about Saudi's.

Why? Because of oil.

You said we had more oil than they do.

I pointed out the having is not the same as having available for use.

I also pointed out that this is a matter of national security.

Then you started discussing national security and oil prices and how we didn't lose many people during any of the wars we fought there. Not to mention the questions you asked about mythical wealthy fanatics and mythical resources controlled by "enemy" states.

and so on and so forth.

So....

Answer to the final point. Do you think we would be having this debate >right now< if Israel did not exist?
You mean about our national security being at risk because we're dependant upon oil controlled by states that are NOT overly friendly to the US?

Well, that discussion would still be going on.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

In the real world they call this >root cause<.
Good. You've learned a term. And the "root cause" is our addiction to their oil.

That's right. There is NOTHING about Israel in that statement.

But you won't see it that way, will you?

Try reading the thread, for the first time.

Regardless of what is said in 15 minute video snippits. Regardless of what the man at the top says. What is the position that drives the support? WDTHASM?
And I'm sure that paragraph made some sense to you when you typed it.

Don't play dumb.
Bill. The problem is on your end. Not mine. You only see it as "dumb" because you can't remember anything two or more posts earlier. Read the thread again, for the first time.

The oil is there.
Congratulations. You've managed to recognize ONE fact in this reality.

If we didn't buy it...someone else would...and in fact...they do.
Bzzzzzttttt!!!!!! And there was so much hope that you could manage TWO facts in a ROW. I guess not.

You see, Bill, if we didn't buy the oil, they would not pump as much. That means they would not sell as much. That means they would have less money from the sales.

You DO understand basic sales, right? You sell X items at Y price and make XY dollars.

So, we have X items, minus what we would normally buy (call it Z) which results in........
(X-Z)Y dollars.

Now, my point is that....

(X-Z)Y dollars is LESS than XY dollars.

Which means fewer dollars for their fanatics.

Which sounds to me like a "good thing".

Your mileage may vary.

Just as much or more combined purchases than the US.
(X-Z)Y dollars is LESS than XY dollars.

Deal with it.

So with or without the US there would be massive amounts of money in the region.
(X-Z)Y dollars is LESS than XY dollars.

I guess that depends upon how you define "massive amounts of money".

I'm saying there will be less money there without our purchases than with our purchases.

I'm saying that our national security would not have the hole it does if we did not import the fuel.

Less money in that region means less funding for extremist terrorists.

Go ahead and argue against that logic.

You will, of course not, notice that I am not refering to Israel at all in that statement.

Money is not the root cause.

Oil is not the root cause.

That leaves...
Bill, just because YOU say so do not MAKE it so.

Oil >IS< the root cause.

More specifically, our addiction to their oil.

Which means that our money is transfered to them.

Which means that their extremists are extremely well funded by our purchases.
New Since you seem incapable...
...of holding a discussion unless it fits your terms and your style...

Enjoy yourself.

You know my point and will not address it.

Thats not my problem.

Nor shall I waste any more of anyone else's time trying to explain it to you.

You claim a superior intellect.

Use it once and a while.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New It's good to see you're staying true to form.
I still remember when I could name the environmental companies I worked for and you refused to name the one you worked for.

The same M.O. from you each time.

And then you run away claiming that I'm the one at fault.

Bill, that would work >IF< everyone didn't know that you are incapable of supplying any facts.

I told you the companies I worked for, you couldn't do the same.

And the same can be seen in this discussion.

You just CAN'T support your position with facts.

And every time you run away blaming me for your inability to name the company you work for (or provide any other facts to support your position).

But, you'll be back on the very next discussion.

Right up until I start digging at you for facts.

Then you'll run, again. And blame me for your lack of facts.

Until the next discussion.

And the questions are never that difficult.
You do know the name of the company you work for, right?
You do know what resources we import, right?
You do know what countries we import them from, right?

Oh, am I wrong on those points?

You can't even answer the questions that you should know the answers to.

Because you're afraid that your lies will be revealed.

Whatever. Run away. Come back when you've grown up a little.
New Slight variant...
I'm much quicker to tell you to go fuck yourself.

You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all.
I'm much quicker to tell you to go fuck yourself.
I'll even disagree with that.

I'm the one who isn't wasting time trying to work with you.

You ALWAYS run when I start digging at you for facts.

The ONLY difference is how quickly I start digging.

If I wasn't digging, you'd still be happily spewing your lies and fantasies.

Prove I'm wrong, Bill.

Name the country
-or-
Name the resource.

It can't be THAT hard.

Unless you have no idea what you're spouting about. The it will be impossible.

But feel free to blame me for your ignorance.

"Well, I >WAS< going to tell you but you're mean to me so I'm not going to tell you now."

Bill, grow up. There isn't a person on this board who doesn't recognize shit like that for exactly what it is.

Particularly when you have no trouble digging up facts when you think I'm wrong. (reference my comments about Ben & Jerry and your cop killer example)

If you can't handle an adult discussion, just keep your childish ass out of them.

Or grow the fuck up already.
New You seem to want me to repeat myself.
There is a distinct difference between having an adult discussion...which would allow for participants to apply thought to a situation and how that situation may change given a new set of circumstances....

And the nitpicky tit for tat bullshit you spew...

So I'll repeat myself...

Fuck off.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all.
There is a distinct difference between having an adult discussion...which would allow for participants to apply thought to a situation and how that situation may change given a new set of circumstances....

And the nitpicky tit for tat bullshit you spew...
I asked you a question about something you posted.

You run and hide and blame me for your ignorance.

You seem quite capable of posting your immature attacks at me.

But you seem quite INCAPABLE of answering simple questions.

It is not MY fault that you are ignorant.

It is not MY fault that you are more cowardly than I (I can post the names of companies I worked for to substantiate my claims, you cannot).

In other words, Bill, NONE of your faults are MY fault.

You are the person you are because that is who you are.

Deal with it.
New This space and your mind = blank
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all.
You still can't do it, can you?
New It's getting tiresome. :-( Perhaps
you and BP should post under new pseudonyms when responding to each other. I fear there's too much bad blood between you two to shed any light through your correspondence.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Yes it is...
...but funny in its own way.

For all of his intelligence he can't seem to understand that my choice is simply not to debate in his style.

My initial post was rhetorical. Designed to point out several flaws in the position that our problems in the Middle East are all due to oil. (oversimplistic and definitely not root cause...contributory sure...compromising National Security..please...)

His response was to as for specific answers to rhetorical questions. (bog)

Take the other issue of my company name. It was an unecessary question. But my lack of an answer to that unecessary question (even though with half a brain and a little memory he should have already known it..since there is only 1 french owned oil/chemical conglomerate) incurs a litany of posts much like the ones above. Constant badgering about things completely unrelated to the discussion.

But...apologies to the board...I was being a good boy for a while and not entering discussions where right shift was an option.

In the immortal words of Firesign Theater...

Back to the Shadows again!

There will be no further posts made by me in this thread.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all.
My initial post was rhetorical. Designed to point out several flaws in the position that our problems in the Middle East are all due to oil.
And the flaw in THAT theory is that you are not able to substantiate ANY of your "rhetorical" questions.

Example, I say the moon is made out of rock.

You ask if there aren't ANY celestial objects made of cheese. (rhetorical)

So I ask you to name ONE that is made of cheese.

And THAT is where the discussion is right now.

You've asked if another country could control another resource.

I've asked what country or what resource.

Take the other issue of my company name. It was an unecessary question.
Negative. You had made statements that you substatiated by claims of insider knowledge.

You also seemed to be claiming that you were a government official interviewing violators AND AT THE SAME TIME a worker in a private company.

So, I gave the names of the companies that I had worked for and why I disagreed with your position.

That was so that ANYONE could, if interested, verify that I did have the background I claimed. In the field I claimed.

While your claim was based upon your claim to secret, revealed wisdom that can not be verified.

Verification IS part of any discussion.

Constant badgering about things completely unrelated to the discussion.
It is related to the discussion. It is an example of your "discussion" method.

Simple put, you make claims without substantiation and when pressed for substantiation, you blame your inability to provide facts on me.

You have done this before.

You did this in this thread.

You will do this again.

Like I said, I can provide facts and references. You will not/can not.

For all of his intelligence he can't seem to understand that my choice is simply not to debate in his style.
And my debate style is to support my position with facts and references.

Which means that your "debate" style is........?
     I am NOT a racist. - (mmoffitt) - (93)
         [oil] - the easy, evident, obvious explanation for All. -NT - (Ashton) - (87)
             No its not... - (bepatient) - (86)
                 Define "have". - (Brandioch) - (85)
                     Well its very simple... - (bepatient) - (84)
                         That >IS< risking national security. - (Brandioch) - (83)
                             Sure... - (bepatient) - (82)
                                 Try that without the "you think". - (Brandioch) - (81)
                                     Damn you're funny. - (bepatient) - (80)
                                         Why can't you answer simple questions? - (Brandioch) - (79)
                                             Why do you answer questions with questions? -NT - (bepatient) - (78)
                                                 To highlight your flaws. - (Brandioch) - (77)
                                                     If you are going to continue... - (bepatient) - (14)
                                                         Can you answer the questions? Are you capable of answering? - (Brandioch) - (11)
                                                             Since you seem incapable... - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                                 It's good to see you're staying true to form. - (Brandioch) - (9)
                                                                     Slight variant... - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                                         The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all. - (Brandioch) - (7)
                                                                             You seem to want me to repeat myself. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                                                 The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all. - (Brandioch) - (5)
                                                                                     This space and your mind = blank -NT - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                                                         The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                                                                             It's getting tiresome. :-( Perhaps - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                                 Yes it is... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                     The name of the country, Bill. Or the resource. That's all. - (Brandioch)
                                                         Science says you're wasting your time. - (marlowe) - (1)
                                                             Bill + Marlowe. - (Brandioch)
                                                     Please be realistic - (Steven A S) - (61)
                                                         Perhaps you can narrow the field? - (Brandioch) - (60)
                                                             Swing and a miss... - (bepatient) - (59)
                                                                 Just tell me the name of the country, Bill. - (Brandioch) - (58)
                                                                     Count China on the following link... - (bepatient) - (57)
                                                                         And you go down in flames. - (Brandioch) - (56)
                                                                             Ahh.. - (bepatient) - (51)
                                                                                 Cry about it. But you know I'm right. - (Brandioch) - (50)
                                                                                     I know of no such thing. - (bepatient) - (49)
                                                                                         Well... since t'was I who uttered the [oil] generalization - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                             We won't complain about Taiwan. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                         There's a LOT you don't know, Bill. - (Brandioch) - (46)
                                                                                             A perfect display of your cluelessness.... - (bepatient) - (45)
                                                                                                 WTF? - (Brandioch) - (44)
                                                                                                     Re: WTF? (planet are you on) - (bepatient) - (43)
                                                                                                         It's called "Earth". You might want to visit sometime. - (Brandioch) - (42)
                                                                                                             Re: Price of crude oil. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                                                                 That's a "clue"? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                             Wow...thats deep... - (bepatient) - (39)
                                                                                                                 Do you not know how to read? - (Brandioch) - (38)
                                                                                                                     I don't mean to pry... - (bepatient) - (37)
                                                                                                                         I'll even give you the format, Bill "strawman" Patient. - (Brandioch) - (36)
                                                                                                                             Wow..thats deep sir. - (bepatient) - (35)
                                                                                                                                 Strawman strikes again. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                 Simple Question. - (mmoffitt) - (33)
                                                                                                                                     Simple Answer, perhaps - (rsf) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         But isn't that still about the oil? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                     Simple answer... - (bepatient) - (30)
                                                                                                                                         Ummm, that wasn't "simple". - (Brandioch) - (21)
                                                                                                                                             But you seem to be. - (bepatient) - (18)
                                                                                                                                                 The country is Uzbekistan. - (Brandioch) - (17)
                                                                                                                                                     Congratulations.... - (bepatient) - (13)
                                                                                                                                                         Like I said, "strawman". - (Brandioch) - (12)
                                                                                                                                                             Reading ability? - (bepatient) - (11)
                                                                                                                                                                 You concede? - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                     Dude...sure...why not. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                         Saved to File, Burned on CD. Thanks -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                             Anytime ;-) -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                                                                 Protocol and courtesy. - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                                     You follow neither. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                                         And when it falls to ME to explain courtesy...... - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                                             Pardon me.. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                                 So, you admit you know nothing about the mid-east. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                                     Funny -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                         This thread is eternal, immortal and knows where you live. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                                     Re: The country is Uzbekistan. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         Perhaps, tovarish, only because you know them better. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             Da. -NT - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                             Ex-Prez Carter: US aid to Israel ~ $10/million / day! -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 How much a day is a surrogate 'US Presence' worth? - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                         you forgot our good friends, Turkey secular muslim nation -NT - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                                                                                             With lots of support for us too. The Mid-East is NOT populat - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                 Well the issue of how the current situation got started - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                     Do you mean to say that, - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                         no, what comes around goes around - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                             Thou sayest. I agree(est). Sad, ain't it..*every time* too. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                             Yup. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                 Yabut.. ________Can That be Good for Bizness ?? - (Ashton)
                                                                             Mica is a strategic mineral. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                 We also have "strategic" helium reserves. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                     You keep forgetting... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                         You keep claiming that. - (Brandioch)
         Ridiculous (got it right this time) - (bepatient) - (4)
             Put down your crack pipe. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                 On demand air charter. - (bepatient) - (2)
                     In support - (Mike)
                     Spin, Spin, Spin. - (mmoffitt)

YOU DON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE THE *real* KNOPPIX INTERPRETER
117 ms