I understand it's a typical economists dilemma.

Post #354,339 by static 2/16/12 7:24:10 PM Reply	I understand it's a typical economists dilemma. The place needs something to make the economy grow. Which is the opposite of what the EU is doing to try to make sure they get their money back. :-/ It's possible that Greece either should never have been admitted into the Euro, or the EU should have enforced their economic conditions and helped them move into the 20th century. Problem is, the EU trying to enforce the rules now (i.e. after the fact) and the Greeks want to tell them to Go Away. And are finding the EU won't let them have it both ways. It is a very broken country. Wade. Just Add Story http://justaddstory.wordpress.com/
Post #354,347 by jake123 2/17/12 9:49:08 AM Reply	I have to say that I have a lot of sympathy for the Greek people's position that they should not be made to pay for games played among oligarchs. I'm having a hard time figuring out how a retired taxi driver in Athens is expected to live out his remaining days in penury so wealthy bondholders don't have to take too much of a haircut. How much money did the individuals running the banks that helped the Greek government hide their mendacity take out, and why aren't they being tasked with taking care of the mess they helped to create and hide, and profited from? Everybody knows the game is fixed, the poor stay poor and the rich get rich, that's how it goes....
Post #354,463 by S1mon_Jester 2/19/12 10:21:23 AM Reply	You think so? I know certain investor counselers who are still pushing Greek investments hard. They know Greece isn't going to be able to pay. A large piece of the market knows it too, which is why those investments are going down. But the investment head honchos don't want to lose their money. They'll push for haircuts, create new product, sprinkle Greek with other investments and push hard to sell them into 401k and Pension Funds. A lot of foolish investors are going to buy items and watch it lose money. The taxi driver isn't going to be affected. The wealthy bondholders will lose a little, but that's all.
Post #354,520 by jake123 2/21/12 12:40:15 AM Reply	The retired taxi driver's pension checks have stopped showing up. I'd say it's affecting him. What would happen in the US if the SS checks stopped going out?
Post #354,521 by S1mon_Jester 2/21/12 1:44:59 AM Reply	Actually, the huge blowup this week was mostly tied to loss of Government jobs and pension cuts.... But it looks like they got an agreement on the pension cuts. (They're still there, just not as large) I still say, check your 401Ks...make sure you don't have any international exposure to the Greek markets. This isn't over yet.
Post #354,466 by Another Scott 2/19/12 11:02:46 AM Reply	Too many in power are treating it as a moral issue. Economics isn't ethics and morality. It's an attempt to describe the workings of an economy and what should be done under conditions of economic distress. There are ways to fix the Greek economy and get it growing again, but too many in power in the EU are treating the problem as if it's one of "confidence" and "not rewarding bad behavior". The numbers don't lie - Greek can't pay back most of these bonds even if the bond holders take substantial losses. Every day of austerity makes the situation worse. Since European banks hold many of the bonds in question, they want their money and will do what they can to get it. Even if it results in a revolution and collapse in Greece. There are a lot of things the EU/ECB/IMF/etc. could do to substantially lessen the stress on the Greek financial system, but they won't because they view it as a problem of Greek morals. The politicians in the EU that control the purse-strings (Merkel especially) have shown no leadership in explaining the reality to their voters. Greece (and Portugal and Italy and maybe even Spain) likely need something like a Marshall Plan - dump a lot of money into the economies to stablize them and get them growing again. It'll increase demand, helping the donor countries/economies, and it'll reduce political pressures in the PIIGS for more radical solutions. The longer this goes on without recognizing reality, the worse the solution will be. http://krugman.blogs...6/the-greek-vise/ Cheers, Scott.

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