Post #346,812
8/27/11 8:50:10 AM
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Music speaker question
I'm looking for a decent set of speakers.
You've seen the list of music I like, now I want something that can actually produce the range.
I've been watching Craig's list, and I wandered a local used music equipment store.
I stumbled across a pair of Cerwin Vega RL-18P speakers at the store. They look good (no crushed cones or anything). They are $250 for the pair.
http://www.google.co...erwin+vega+rl-18p
It seems their internal amp can blow but I doubt very much I'll have it turned up to that level in my apartment.
I'll hook them up at the store an listen to them 1st.
Worth $250?
Anything I should be looking for instead?
They are 6 ohm. I'm used to thinking of 4 and 8 ohm for speakers, but they allow for line in as well. I'll be plugging them in to an Onkyo TX-SR 804. I had a friend who claimed to blow out an amp because he used the wrong ohm speakers connected. It that something I need to worry about here?
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Post #346,815
8/27/11 9:10:50 AM
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Well.. shucks.
Since the Amps in the them are 100 Watt and people are blowing them up left and right... this means that the Amps are now "over rated" for the load they are sending to.
If you use variable line in to drive the speaker, you should be fine. I looked at some reviews and found that people blowing up the AMPs are typically driving the AMPs with "100 Watt" amps already... I am sure they were thinking they were additive!
This is something that will blow inputs on amps no matter the Ohms. 6 vs 8 vs 4... Its not really the issue, its the input wattage rating they have on the low impedance input. typically these high power inputs do not handle 100 watts input. They are meant for 4 watts stereos.
If you have a decent AMP... get away from self powered speakers. An just so you know... Watts is a logarithmic type of gain. going from 40 watts to 100 watts really on gains you a bit of headroom for the AMP itself, but you'll typically never hear it. To get more dB, a 3dB gain on sound (doubling) you typically need 10 times the power from a comparable setup.
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Post #346,818
8/27/11 9:25:52 AM
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I'm happy with my JBL's from the Harmon-Kardon store.
They often have close-outs, overstocks, etc., on sale there. H-K owns many of the brands that dominate retail (JBL, Infinity, H-K, etc., etc.). I have heard of C-V, but that's about it.
I got 2 JBL ES80CH (in cherry) towers there for $179 each. (They used to be $500 each, and the black ones still are.) I like them, and they're plenty loud but not super efficient (volume needs to be ~ 25% on my old Sony receiver to fill the room its in).
They don't have similar JBL speakers on clearance at the moment.
Something superficially similar is the Infinity P235BK https://www.harmanau...er=P253BK&status= at $149 each ($100 each off).
Definitely try to listen to them. I have some older Infinity large bookshelf speakers with very poor bass even though they have 12" woofers.
The only experience I have with amplified speaker is my 10" JBL subwoofer. It seems fine.
Basically, if you like the way they sound for the price, that's all that matters. And a good stereo can mask some speaker issues and make them sound richer. And, finally, a cheap subwoofer can make up for lack of bass in expensive speakers - don't spend a fortune to get another 10 Hz on the bottom end from your towers.
HTH. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #346,927
8/29/11 4:44:31 PM
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Well, I just picked up some JBLs myself
a pair of these: http://www.jblpro.co...ctype=3&docid=592 PRX515s. Paid 625 each... 500W RMS (400 driver, 100 horn). You'll never run out of power and they're very difficult to blow. Ran them in one of the city parks for an event here a couple weekends back, worked very well for a crowd outdoors of nearly a thousand people; nobody had any trouble hearing anything (that was coming out of the speakers, that is).
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Post #346,933
8/29/11 5:57:00 PM
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Excellent boxes, those!
great sound and power. Used predecessors for dj activity in former life.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #346,966
8/30/11 12:57:43 AM
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Yeah, they sound freakin' great.
Really good dynamic range, nice flat response... vocals sound fantastic through them.
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Post #346,939
8/29/11 6:42:00 PM
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Heh.. shades of the Crown DC-300 ('60s)
Virtually a small Op-Amp scaled-UP -- it was almost bullet-proof with a local rock group I sold one to.
Guess they patented the design:
Class-D, Crown® digital amplifier
DC-300 was, indeed DC --> way beyond 20 KHz, very low IM, THD ... though golden-ears types deemed it maybe a tad "glassy" ... but then, they were comparing with Marantz and similar icons du jour.
(Some used these at the 'DC' end: to run shaker tables and such. Great before bass-cubes became a commodity: for those 5 Hz earthquake tapes and other tomfoolery..)
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Post #346,967
8/30/11 12:59:23 AM
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What was their RMS rating?
I'd be surprised if that was the design principle used for the class D stuff... but it's true that I don't really know the design history of that stuff.
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Post #346,970
8/30/11 3:42:47 AM
8/30/11 3:51:34 AM
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Hey.. inducted into a 'Hall of Fame'!
150 W/ch X 2, rms at [forget.. "low"] THD, IM.
Seems that the DC-300 was inducted into the TECnology Hall of Fame [?] in '07, 40th anniversary of intro:
http://www.crownaudi...m/press/pr157.htm
'Twas a heavy rack-mount-sized beast and, at $~680 in '67: cost Lots in the day.
I was a Crown dealer; sold a few Crown prof. R-to-R tape recorders (one to the US Navy!) and a few DC-300s, but was then winding down this avocation. The build quality was excellent, near- Tektronix or hP grade.
NEW YORK CITY - November 2007 -- As a fitting cap to Crown International's 60th anniversary year, the DC 300 amplifier, first introduced 40 years prior in 1967, was inducted into the TECnology Hall Of Fame on the opening day of the 123rd AES Convention in New York City. Gerald Stanley, Crown International's senior VP of R&D and the original designer of the DC 300, was on hand to accept the award.
Presented by the Mix Foundation for Excellence in Audio, best known for its production of the TEC Awards, and hosted by the AES, the Fourth Annual TECnology Hall Of Fame ceremony was emceed by George Petersen, executive editor of Mix magazine and director of the TECnology Hall Of Fame.
Petersen prefaced Crown's award by remarking, "[The DC 300] was a classic that really ushered in and defined the era of the modern power amplifier. And 1967 was a perfect time for this product to come out. Suddenly there were rock concerts that were high SPL--very loud--and needed great amplification. Live sound systems were coming into vogue. Listening levels in recording studios in 1967 started going through the roof and somebody needed to produce an amplifier that was loud enough to take care of this. And even 40 years after its introduction, there are so many of these DC 300s still in service, it's an amazing testament to Crown reliability."
Accepting the award, Gerald Stanley commented in his own inimitable way, "I must say this is quite humbling. Engineers don't normally get put in the spotlight. But there are some people that are even less in the spotlight that I think are very important in all of this. One are the people that faithfully drive the screws and solder the joints; the people who work and make these products reliable. Nothing I do as an engineer matters if people don't put it together faithfully.
"There's a second group that almost never gets mentioned, and that's the group of risk-takers. You see, technology doesn't really 'happen' unless people take risks to do things that are new and different. So who are the risk-takers? They're you, the users. Because, after all, the year is 1967. There have been a number of power amplifiers out. They all break, and fairly soon; you hardly have to abuse them at all. You've already bought 'N-1' of these things, so why would you try to buy the Nth one and think it any better? That wouldn't be rational. And especially when you consider that you would have to go to a tape recorder company--Crown International--located in Elkhart, Indiana. It's where you make band instruments and travel trailers. That's what Elkhart's famous for. So people took a huge risk. And 685 dollars in 1967 is a different quantity materially than it is today. People put a lot of trust in us, quite frankly, and we're humbled by that. And we want the products that we make today to be as faithful and enduring and as apt to their purpose as the DC 300 has proven to be. But hats off to you, the users, who cast your lot with us and gave us a try. I thank you."
Introduced in 1967, the high-powered, solid-state Crown DC 300 power amplifier offered 150 watts per channel at eight ohms and AB+B circuitry. The product's reputation for high output power, pristine sound, and exemplary reliability, even in the most demanding applications, quickly helped establish Crown as a true leader in the worldwide power amplifier market.
[. . .]
PS:
I have a pristine Crown IM Analyzer, Model IMA + perfect manual copy, available for a pittance (it also wasn't cheap in the day, though I snagged it off of eBay a few years back. Never used it.)
Edited by Ashton
Aug. 30, 2011, 03:51:34 AM EDT
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Post #347,001
8/30/11 10:29:07 AM
8/30/11 2:22:26 PM
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Re: Hey.. inducted into a 'Hall of Fame'!
Well, I might actually be interested in some of that hardware... I'd really like to get an oscilloscope sometime so I could check out what's coming out of my guitar amps (I've got some nicely old ones, and they're all old tech). It's a great way to figure out just exactly where the signal starts to break up...
150W is pretty loud, but I bet it would have a hard time delivering the vocals in competition with a 50W tube guitar amp. Actually, I've got a far descendent of that; it's a Crown 802 XLS, develops 500W/side RMS at 8 ohms. If I bridge the amp, I can get it up to 1600W@8Ohms. Great amp, sounds great, but it weighs a ton (well, close to seventy pounds). I use it to drive the three JBL JRX112Ms that I have. I used to use two of them for FOH and one as a monitor for whoever was singing, but now that I've picked up those two powered enclosures I can go to running three monitors and two monitor mixes. All I need now is a sub running between 800-1000W, and the fundamentals of my PA are complete... mwahahahaaaaaa :)
Edited by jake123
Aug. 30, 2011, 02:22:26 PM EDT
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