Post #342,468
5/9/11 8:44:37 PM
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Selective numbers.
Here's the full report - http://www.google.co...1otxK0tow&cad=rja (8 page .pdf).
That "scary" chart shows federal revenue at 14.8% of GDP. During the Great Recession. If one assumes that federal revenue recovers as the recovery gains strength, then the 358% ratio drops substantially.
What is it for Japan? Let's see: government is 28% of GDP, Debt is 225% of GDP, giving a ratio of 804%. Oooh. Scary. It's a good thing that the Japanese government has a monopoly on the creation of Yen, isn't it? Japan's 10-year bonds yield about 1.14% at the moment.
On the other hand, Russia's debt is 9.5% of GDP. They're an economic paradise, huh.
http://en.wikipedia...._financial_crisis Russia's 10 year bonds are paying around 6% - http://www.tradingec...rnment-bond-yield
IOW, the M-S report is scaremongering. Comparing historical debt to income data, when currencies were tied to gold, to the present situation in the US is not enlightening.
The US isn't Greece. Greece uses the Euro and has no control over the currency. The US has a monopoly on the creation of dollars.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #342,474
5/9/11 10:49:37 PM
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Re: Selective numbers.
So Japan has a lower uncertainty that the US according to investors..to the tune of some 60%?
As for Russia, the risk factor is simple. What do you do if they do not pay? That will carry a premium..a substantial one. Let alone the issues of currency and conversion.
Your previous post...you talked about things the gov could do...hire more people (um..are we talking about temporary stimulus???). What will they >make<? Gov is NOT a producer. Plus, they've been doing that since the end of WW2 (gov worker per 1k pop is nearly double). At the same time, Mfring jobs have gone from 40% to about 9.
And on infrastructure. Yes they could spend on infrastructure. But they don't. And they won't. And you know it.
So sure, we could put out another 2T stimulus package. And it will go to the street as bonuses and real unemployment would still be 20%.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #342,475
5/9/11 11:34:48 PM
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You've drunk too much kool-ade.
The point in my bringing up Japan and Russia was to show that the debt to income ratios have nothing to do with what's happening in the US. Single ratios aren't indicative of the economy as a whole. If that ratio was what mattered, then Japan would be a basket case and Russia would be paradise. They aren't.
And now you change the subject again...
Teachers are not Producers? Firemen are not Producers? Researchers at national labs and NIST are not Producers? Forest rangers are not Producers? People at the DOD who write and oversee contracts with Boeing and Lockheed-Martin and Northrop-Grumman and Xe and ... are not Producers? Lawyers and patent examiners at the USPTO are not Producers? People who regulate industry as a result of laws written by the Congress are not Producers? The People at the MSA and the CDC and the EPA and the Coast Guard are not Producers? Tax examiners and lawyers at the IRS who work to efficiently collect money based on the laws written by Congress are not Producers? You think there are too many Air Traffic Controllers? People who maintain government buildings and keep the vast infrastructure from crumbling even more aren't Producers?
NASA doesn't Produce anything? DARPA doesn't Produce anything? The NSF doesn't Produce anything? They're just web sites that hand out money to contractors?
Really? Only non-government jobs are worthy of being called Producers? Are you really that brain-washed? Really?!?
Who is going to manage this vast stimulus package that you think would solve all our problems? Does the Hoover Dam run itself?
If you think the only jobs that government creates are temporary Census jobs and the like, then you need to get out more.
Many government agencies have shrunk over the last 30 years, and many more are facing losing a critical mass of expertise with upcoming retirements. If you think government is bad now, wait until it's even more underfunded, understaffed, and demonized so that nobody with any talent and sense of service wants to work for it. Yeah, it'll be great then....
Sheesh. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #342,478
5/10/11 7:24:32 AM
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Re: You've drunk too much kool-ade.
Really?
So when you add all the research up, what % of the government workforce is that?
As for protective services...well they don't >make< anything. As for gov staff jobs, they really don't make anything...
The poor poor fed...understaffed, underfunded...spending how many trillion/year? You're making me weep. Please stop.
If you would have rattled off some bridgebuilders, roadbuilders, construction workers, shipbuilders...but no...those are all done by private concerns.
(and you brought up gov procurement as productive...I'm going to laugh about that all day)
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #342,481
5/10/11 7:42:33 AM
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Heh.
The Army Corps of Engineers and the SeaBees don't make anything? They're "private concerns"? Really? Are you sure you want to keep going down this road?
The Galtian Overlords and Masters of the Universe constructed the systems of laws and rules that make all their wealth and Productivity possible? Really? Or do you mean that the system appeared fully-formed from Zeus's head? Really?
If you think procurement has problems now, imagine what it would be like without those people who "don't really make anything" over-seeing it. Living in Florida, I would think you would be aware that quite often people and companies try to defraud the government for personal gain. http://articles.sun-...al-giant-columbia But those FBI investigators "don't really make anything" so it's just busy-work that wastes Beep's taxpayer dollars so it's good if they go away. Right? Government's too big!!!!111ONE
Should I start calling you Farmer Beep now, to recognize that you "really" produce stuff?
Sheesh.
I think I'm done.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #342,480
5/10/11 7:33:39 AM
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ROFLMAO
If you think government is bad now, wait until it's even more underfunded
dude the feckin gov grew 20% in the last 10 years and you claim it is underfunded?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
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Post #342,482
5/10/11 7:46:13 AM
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Yes, the government's underfunded.
If you haven't noticed, in the Bush years there were been continuing budget deficits (even when the economy was growing) that were caused by big tax cuts.
Of course cuts in spending can be made (getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan will save money).
Have fun - I'm done playing for now.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #342,491
5/10/11 11:04:07 AM
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Different flavors of kool-aid I guess
when the IRS staff build their own office...I'll be convinced.:-)
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #342,496
5/10/11 3:10:51 PM
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You and box do realise
that when it comes to this stuff, you guys are completely out of your nut, eh?
Borrow and spend conservatives. Sheesh.
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Post #342,501
5/10/11 4:13:47 PM
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Maybe not.. True Disbelievers are always with us
and many may not ken the difference between obsession and dedication?
(Now, you take My Gramma ...
NO! YOU take My Gramma!)
and so it goes.
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Post #342,502
5/10/11 4:48:57 PM
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borrow and spend? hardly
what you lot going to do when yo can no longer afford to take dollars for your stuff and we will want it anyway?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
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Post #342,503
5/10/11 5:12:00 PM
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Bit more fundamental of an argument
more along the lines of what services should the government perform.
Yep...I'm a looney for thinking our gov is untrustworthy and out of control.
http://www.msnbc.msn...t-big-government/
joined by 80% of my fellow americans on the trust issue and just over half on the size issue.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #342,504
5/10/11 5:30:20 PM
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Science by survey ... check
--
Drew
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Post #342,505
5/10/11 5:46:44 PM
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You'll love browsing around the GSS, then.
I'm not much of a fan of polls, myself. But if you like them, you should at least looks at one that is done well like the GSS.
For example:
PreQuestion Text
165. I am going to name some institutions in this country. As far as the people running these institutions are concerned, would you say you have a great deal of confidence, only some confidence, or hardly any confidence at all in them?
Guess when "A Great Deal" had its highest value, and when "Hardly Any" had its highest value, and think about the state of the US then....
Confidence in Congress since 1973 - http://publicdata.no...&count=2&cases1=4
Have fun.
Cheers,
Scott.
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