Post #341,757
4/21/11 2:04:52 PM
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But but but...
Then we have to retrofit ALL EXISTING Nuclear Reactor Plants to withstand a Bahmillion on the Richter Scale before anyone will trust them... at least an 11...!!!1!!1!
I mean come the eff on. Fukashima with stood an Earthquake 800 time more powerful than it was designed to withstand... and then it really was the design of the backup power that failed to cool the reactors.
Give them some credit for the reactors not instantly imploding and making Japan a nuclear wasteland like the US did to it in the 40s...
Building/Retrofitting Reactors to withstand an 11... is not enough. The Earth will eventually top that as well.
At what point do people really want to get off Hydrocarbons? Obviously not very soon.
Wind? Come on... wind isn't reasonable for the Rich folks that don't want an obstructed view of the seasides... or oceans.
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Post #341,764
4/21/11 2:57:27 PM
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Not so fast there...
I mean come the eff on. Fukashima with stood an Earthquake 800 time more powerful than it was designed to withstand... and then it really was the design of the backup power that failed to cool the reactors.
Not so.
http://en.wikipedia....quake_and_tsunami
The epicenter was 45 miles east of Sendai and Fukushima is farther down the coast.
http://en.wikipedia....e_accident_begins
The 9.0 MW Tōhoku earthquake occurred at 14:46 JST on Friday, 11 March 2011 with epicentre near the island of Honshu.[43] It resulted in maximum ground accelerations of 0.56, 0.52, 0.56 g (5.50, 5.07 and 5.48 m/s2) at units 2, 3 and 5 respectively, above their designed tolerances of 0.45, 0.45 and 0.46 g (4.38, 4.41 and 4.52 m/s2), but values within the design tolerances at units 1, 4 and 6.[30] The Fukushima I facility had not initially been designed for a tsunami of the size that struck the plant,[44][45] nor had the reactors been modified when later concerns were raised in Japan and by the IAEA.[46]
I can't find the numbers, but IIRC, the actual equivalent quake at the reactors was ~ 7.0 or below.
The quake didn't do the plant in - it was the tsunami and the design/layout of the backup systems. The main point is that the plant should never have suffered loss of coolant - there should have been sufficient backups. Once coolant is lost, lots of very bad thing happen that can spiral out of control...
At least that's my understanding at the moment.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #341,767
4/21/11 3:03:37 PM
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correct
it wasn't the quake that did the plant in...it was the wave.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #341,776
4/21/11 4:46:28 PM
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In this case. However, each accident has been different...
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Post #341,774
4/21/11 4:41:46 PM
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Lots more [-]s re. wind exist..
Not the least: as-yet uncounted (properly) losses to birds, bats (wait til the mosquitoes Win. Again.)
Heard a lengthy rant on the numerous but-wait!s ... biased towards the [-] -- but with sufficient clarity that the [+]s are, simply not-without-Cost.
This is another alternative which does not yield to simple-ass slogans, in deciding on each venue. Then there are the present Subsidies, never factored into Ad-spreadsheets;
'cost' numbers, once verified, suggest that the overall costs are quite higher than advertised and the nuisance factor
(especially for those living in double-wides, often with these whirling whomp-whomps only feet from a fence)
-- makes for an unlivable accommodation.) Etc. Natch the bottom 20% can't successfully vote against the demolition of even their pitiful real-estate: The Murican Way.
It just ain't Simple, is my take thus far.
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Post #341,787
4/21/11 5:42:34 PM
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Speaking of trailers
Was listening to a story about the tornadoes in NC. They mentioned a statistic that blew my mind: 14% of all homes in NC are trailers.
--
Drew
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Post #341,840
4/23/11 12:28:48 AM
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25% of Texas homes are trailers
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #341,841
4/23/11 12:30:33 AM
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Real stat, or just seems that way?
--
Drew
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Post #341,858
4/23/11 5:56:18 PM
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you should suspect anything Linc says about Texas
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Post #341,798
4/21/11 9:26:38 PM
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The problem with wind:
Extracting enough power from the wind to replace other sources of energy might seriously affect climate:
http://www.newscient...ergy-balance.htmlRegards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #341,808
4/22/11 2:05:53 AM
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Had a glimmer in that direction once..
But insufficient thermodynamics virtuosity to try for anything quantitative (and it also seemed that such an estimate might need some 'quantitative' application of Chaos Theory,
which AFAIK is not quite utile for real numbers either.) Declared self incompetent, lazy or both.
Hmmm - DRL?
Nice that others are tackling such a massive Q. -- for which they shall have to invent a whole new map on which to hang their experiments. TANSTAAFL again?
Every science-iggerant political hack will be demagoguing this idea and all related.
(And.. what IF it turns out that techno-civilization, with all the perks we now take for granted as perpetually increasing [Hah] can 'work' only for a Population of N [excessively-comfortable bipeds] ??)
And we're already at ... say, 1.5 N ??
Will the Pope acquiesce on that 'be fruitful and multiply exponentially' thing, in the interest of having Any new acolytes at all, as Rome broils in the winter?
One thing is already clear: even at present world population, there is No Way that everyone-not-Murican can ever spend the KW-hours-per-perp that we have spent as we, all along, encouraged regular waste
(as a means to make more profits via replacements -- the usual mercantile mindset of Reddy Kilowatt et bizness-alia.)
No wonder everyone else will be really PISSED when there's enough data to prove: TANSTAAFL IS.
The last people all-the-rest will want to hear from, about 'frugality': would be .... US, methinks.
{sigh} Seems that Slaughterhouse Five's errant rocket pilot (the one who pushed the wrong button and offed the local Universe) just might have been a Murican, at least in spirit.
'Course it would be bad form to utter any such wonderments to the tykes, especially clever ones ... for all obv psyche reasons :-/
Is it time for Mahler's Sixth -With Feeling- yet?
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