Post #339,410
2/5/11 2:24:53 PM
|
Re: Rolling blackouts in Texas
ERCOT finally moved to this power pool formation about a decade ago. But thereÂs a limit to this, because Texas chose decades ago to limit its transmission interconnections with other states, so as to avoid the Âinterstate commerce that would trigger Federal jurisdiction. ItÂs the Rick Perry attitude towards whether theyÂre part of the Union or not.
Texas stands alone, and the interconnections it has with other states are both limited and of a different type (Direct Current), which arenÂt free flowing; theyÂre highly controlled.
What that means is that when something happens in Texas, it doesnÂt affect surrounding systems like Southwest Power Pool, and vice versa. But the price they pay is that when they need help, they donÂt necessarily get it. And when thereÂs a severe emergency, as happened this week, their whole system becomes vulnerable, just to please an ideological insistence to stand alone.
If Texas had been more interconnected with the US, the way the entire Eastern Interconnection (MISO, SPP, PJM, NY, NE, etc) are interconnected, itÂs entirely possible that the combined system would have automatically fixed the problems before the lights in Texas went out. ItÂs just physics.
When an operating plant trips off, standby operating reserves automatically kick in, and if those trip too, other plants should kick in. Further, in a fraction of a second, the voltage frequency drops across the transmission grid, and [local] voltage support may also suffer. When that happens, the ISOÂs system dispatch automatically sends signals to many other generators to ramp up, to bring supply back in balance with demand and raise voltage levels to reliable levels.
Again, we donÂt know the exact sequence of the Texas failure. But itÂs likely that if Texas had been more strongly interconnected with the US, the entire Eastern Interconnection would have instantly responded to the frequency/voltage dips and immediately brought more generators on line in surrounding states. So even if other plants in Texas tripped off, as they apparently did, extra power from plants in Missouri and Illinois and Ohio would have kept the lights on in Texas.
That would have avoided rolling blackouts in Texas cities. It would have kept the electric compressor/pumps running in northern Texas that send natural gas to Northern New Mexico, which lost gas supplies for heating in the middle of winter.
In unity, there is strength, safety, reliability. We know this. WeÂve had 100 years of electricity system developments to prove it, over and over.
http://my.firedoglak...-mccaskills-head/
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
|
Post #339,425
2/5/11 5:56:19 PM
|
not really a good argument there
this "unity" caused 55 million people across Ontario and 8 states to lose power for a longer period of time than those of us affected by the controlled, rolling, blackouts were.
http://en.wikipedia...._Blackout_of_2003
|
Post #339,453
2/6/11 1:37:01 PM
|
Yeah, it's really too bad
that US private infrastructure wasn't developed and maintained properly to deal with the growing demand for electricity, and caused all the other electrical systems tied to it to trip out.
In short, the real problem wasn't interconnectedness; it was that one of the parties to it weren't fulfilling their responsibilities to maintain their infrastructure, in order to increase profits.
|
Post #339,458
2/6/11 3:30:40 PM
|
I see a number of mentions of
Canada, Ontario, Québec, etc. here that aren't tied to US power outages.
http://en.wikipedia...._of_power_outages
|
Post #339,581
2/9/11 12:02:29 PM
|
No... the point there
was that the cascading failures that led to the great blackout were because of poorly maintained infrastructure in (IIRC) Ohio, which led to a massive failure (high tension long distance infrastructure wires literally melting) causing a massive failure of the ability to maintain the system's balance, leading to the progressive scramming of reactors across those areas.
Not weather related. Strictly shitty maintenance on the part of the utility that was supposed to be taking care of it.
|
Post #339,587
2/9/11 3:51:14 PM
|
thing is
1 private company screwed up, and you're apparently putting blame on all of the "US private infrastructure".
While it wasn't weather related, it could easily have been. A single point of failure should not be able to wipe out power for that many people over that widespread of an area. That fact that it could makes linc's whole "unity is better" argument fall flat on its face.
|
Post #339,590
2/9/11 3:59:55 PM
|
More than one
The power companies here laid off a majority of their maintenance staff and came up with a mutual help plan to borrow each others assets if needed. They ignored normal maintenance until failure. When it dropped in the pot, there was a lot more than they could deal with. It was more than one private company. And those companies ARE the regional infrastructure. They just slacked off to make more money.
|
Post #339,593
2/9/11 4:28:14 PM
|
The findings in wiki
put it on FirstEnergy due to lack of tree triming in Ohio, combined with some software bugs that suppressed information for over an hour that would have let them know about the problem.
It doesn't mention if others slacked on their maintenance.
Well well - this bit seems interesting:
The extra publicity given to Ontario's need to import electricity from the United States, mostly due to a decision of the government not to expand the province's power generating capabilities, may also have adversely affected the Conservative government. So by having "unity", you can blame your own shortcomings on others...
|
Post #339,594
2/9/11 4:51:21 PM
|
Re: The findings in wiki
The tree trimming was part of it. They also lost a couple of sections of high tension lines which really screwed things up. I don't think that had anything to do with trees.
Two of our friends and one of my wife's extended family were among the people laid off. They were pretty bitter an vocal about the under the table deals that were made to enable their removal. The companies didn't really care about maintenance and they underestimated how much could go wrong in that short a time. They still got their bonuses and rate hikes, so it's all good.
|