"Why doesn't everybody just carry a gun?"

Why wasn't there a hero with a gun ready to shoot Loughner down before he trained his Glock on that nine-year old child, or that Federal judge, or the nice little elderly man waiting to chat with her?

It turns out there was. Only this particular hero was smart enough to stop and think for a second or two, which probably saved more lives than were otherwise lost.

But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "

But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

If you compare Zamudio's story to Bill Badger's account (video at the top) as told to Lawrence O'Donnell last night, a picture emerges. Had Zamudio not been careful, there might have been another fatality, or six. At about the 5:36 mark in the video, Badger says that after Loughner went down, the gun left his hand and someone else picked it up. Badger yelled for him to drop the gun, fearing that the police might shoot him, thinking he was the shooter.

Or a well-intentioned citizen like Zamudio.

http://crooksandliar...s-guns-no-one-wil

Not to mention that by the time Zamudio got there, 20 shots had already been fired, 6 people were dead, and that the whackjob had already been disarmed.

Having been through this, I know - it's not luck, it comes from deep down in the personality.

In my (much) more paranoid days I used to keep a luger (navy length barrel) jammed between my mattress and the headboard, snug in a fleece lined cozy (unzipped). I always wondered about a number of serious questions should someone actually sneak into my house.

One day, in late afternoon, I was very tired and took a nap. That nap overslept into the evening darkness.

My weekend girlfriend of the time came in and slipped into the bedroom with her stuff. I awoke suddenly, aware there was someone in the room. These questions were answered, according to the lady, in about 1-1/2 seconds.

Should the occasion arise, would I remember it was there? - Oh, you betcha I did - got it in one smooth cat-quick motion!
Would I remember it had a safety, where it was, and how to disengage it? - That too - no problem there!
Would I aim the first shot to hit or to miss? - Aimed to miss.
Would I pause to identify before firing any shot? - Yes - no shots were fired.

Of course, even so, the lady never again entered my bedroom in the dark without calling ahead - even long after the luger was stashed in the closet.

Post #338,525 by lincoln 1/12/11 9:44:34 PM Reply	"Why doesn't everybody just carry a gun?" Why wasn't there a hero with a gun ready to shoot Loughner down before he trained his Glock on that nine-year old child, or that Federal judge, or the nice little elderly man waiting to chat with her? It turns out there was. Only this particular hero was smart enough to stop and think for a second or two, which probably saved more lives than were otherwise lost. But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' " But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out. If you compare Zamudio's story to Bill Badger's account (video at the top) as told to Lawrence O'Donnell last night, a picture emerges. Had Zamudio not been careful, there might have been another fatality, or six. At about the 5:36 mark in the video, Badger says that after Loughner went down, the gun left his hand and someone else picked it up. Badger yelled for him to drop the gun, fearing that the police might shoot him, thinking he was the shooter. Or a well-intentioned citizen like Zamudio. http://crooksandliar...s-guns-no-one-wil Not to mention that by the time Zamudio got there, 20 shots had already been fired, 6 people were dead, and that the whackjob had already been disarmed. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #338,549 by boxley 1/13/11 10:37:04 AM Reply	Re: "Why doesn't everybody just carry a gun?" the person with the gun had some training, probably more than most police officers. You check the scene before firing. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #338,557 by beepster 1/13/11 11:37:03 AM Reply	Looks to me like proof that folks with conceal permits are actually smarter than they're getting credit for. Proving the wrong point. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,576 by lincoln 1/13/11 11:01:43 PM Reply	Zamudio was ready to shoot the guy with the pistol without knowing that the pistol was now out of the hands of the original shooter. Good thing that he listened to someone before going all Rambo on him - doesn't make him any smarter than anyone else, just lucky that he hesitated. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #338,578 by Andrew Grygus 1/13/11 11:48:22 PM Reply	Not just luck. Having been through this, I know - it's not luck, it comes from deep down in the personality. In my (much) more paranoid days I used to keep a luger (navy length barrel) jammed between my mattress and the headboard, snug in a fleece lined cozy (unzipped). I always wondered about a number of serious questions should someone actually sneak into my house. One day, in late afternoon, I was very tired and took a nap. That nap overslept into the evening darkness. My weekend girlfriend of the time came in and slipped into the bedroom with her stuff. I awoke suddenly, aware there was someone in the room. These questions were answered, according to the lady, in about 1-1/2 seconds. Should the occasion arise, would I remember it was there? - Oh, you betcha I did - got it in one smooth cat-quick motion! Would I remember it had a safety, where it was, and how to disengage it? - That too - no problem there! Would I aim the first shot to hit or to miss? - Aimed to miss. Would I pause to identify before firing any shot? - Yes - no shots were fired. Of course, even so, the lady never again entered my bedroom in the dark without calling ahead - even long after the luger was stashed in the closet.
Post #338,580 by beepster 1/14/11 7:49:12 AM Reply	so your point is That every gun owner is trigger happy with no ability to assess a situation and that this guy was just lucky. Got it Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,597 by jake123 1/14/11 12:05:35 PM Reply	No some are, some aren't. Depending on them all being non-trigger-happy is dumb.
Post #338,599 by beepster 1/14/11 12:12:32 PM Reply	Does this also apply to law enforcement? just asking....as you are all in heavy generalization mode at this time. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,600 by jake123 1/14/11 12:28:59 PM Reply	Strawman much?
Post #338,606 by beepster 1/14/11 1:42:03 PM Reply	Yep. Certainly do. However, in many cases, the folks concealing and carrying here are former military (Tucson also a very large military community) and are more than likely better trained than their law-enforcement counterparts. However, as that doesn't fit into your stereotype, I apologize for bringing that point up. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,610 by jake123 1/14/11 1:55:39 PM Reply	Dude, you're completely mischaracterizing what I said Trusting that ALL of them will be reasonable (as is the case in AZ under current law) is just nuts. All those reasonable trained conceal carry people aren't going to make one bit of difference if the guy you're next to isn't one of them.
Post #338,611 by beepster 1/14/11 2:04:52 PM Reply	Possible as you were throwing it in as a carry-on from Linc's massive generalization.... My point is that its likely even-odds, or possibly better odds that the private citizen carrying is better trained that the law enforcement officer at the scene. And when you add the Tom Brokaw thing in...well thats just silly is what that is. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,613 by jake123 1/14/11 2:09:08 PM Reply	I don't know anything about the Tom Brokaw thing I don't watch TV, let alone US broadcast news TV. And I'm not Linc.
Post #338,617 by beepster 1/14/11 2:23:49 PM Reply	Should read all of my posts then ;-) Since I posted it all here this morning. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,652 by lincoln 1/15/11 2:38:44 PM Reply	trying to put your words into my mouth another straw man attempt on your part. Another fail. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #338,653 by beepster 1/15/11 2:44:31 PM Reply	No I'm not. I'm countering the implication in your link. you posted a link of a very astute observation...that Mr Z was careful. Then they go on to at least imply that regardless of that fact, its a bad thing that he was carrying. How about the other what if...that the shooter had reloaded and was getting ready to let off another 31 rounds and Mr Z got out there and took him down? Would we be implying that he should not have been allowed to carry then? Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,656 by lincoln 1/15/11 2:48:38 PM Reply	We can play "What If" all day long if you want "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #338,661 by beepster 1/15/11 3:36:47 PM Reply	Yes we can and come to completely different conclusions doing so. Felt it was rather poor writing on the part of your original author, however...as it relied on what actually did NOT happen to support the case. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,654 by beepster 1/15/11 2:45:57 PM Reply	AH, wrong link level. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #338,679 by crazy 1/16/11 7:52:28 AM Reply	The hesitation was not luck You are projecting. Maybe it would be luck for you, and you can't envision it being part of a fluid well executed process in someone else. He has a thought process, you heard some of it. He might have needed to shoot as he rounded the corner, but he wasn't "trigger happy". He did the right thing, and you characterize it as luck. That was a leap, and an accusative leap, which I don't think is warranted here. Find another example for your viewpoints, they are usually pretty good. But not this one.

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