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New O excellent demonstration of the roots of casual pedantry --
-- same old bloody Vanity..

Looking for Ben F's cute quip on That old vice, I came across this familiar 'old' and now New Again Prescience of Our Times:
http://www.freerepub...hat/2181646/posts


A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world’s great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency back to bondage.

—Alexander Tyler



(Except.. except that Nothing is fershure, like even 'Tyler', it seems)
http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html


[. . .]

Today, a Google search for "from bondage to spiritual faith" produces over 12,000 results. Well over half of those appear in conjunction with the "Why Democracies Fail" quote.

-----

Who, then, is the author of these quotes? Even after all of my research, I am afraid I still cannot say for certain. But perhaps some conclusions may be drawn.

Each quote can be traced back at least as far as the mid-20th century, but the quotes cannot be found to have appeared together until the 1970s. Attributions of WDF to Tytler can be found as early as 1951, the quote has been the subject of authorship inquiries in The New York Times and American Notes & Queries, both of which are notoriously good at verifying authorship of works, but neither of which could provide an author for these quotes.

Some readers may wonder why I chose to quote variations so frequently, and to go into such detail when a shorter examination would do. I had three reasons for this. First, I did a lot of research, and I didn't want to cut too much of my work. Second, I wanted to put any doubts about my thoroughness to rest. And third, through my quoting and detailing, I hoped to illustrate exactly how quotes can evolve with time. New words are added, old ones disappear, and attributions and contexts change. That's not typical of a quote that has a definitive and reliable source; it's much more common with proverbs.

These facts lead me to suspect that these quotes were probably coined by separate individuals in the first half of the twentieth century, and I'm comfortable in concluding that Henning W. Prentis, Jr. is the author of the Fatal Sequence, unless further earlier evidence comes forward. In the original version of this article, when the evidence was inconclusive as to the author of either quote, I wrote that the authors of each half were most likely not famous persons or respected scholars, but rather just private political thinkers who got their words in print, and whose words then happened to strike a chord in others. The identification of Mr. Prentis as the author of FS bolsters this interpretation; the Fatal Sequence was not coined by a political figure or noted historian, but rather the president of a cork company. The passage of time merely encouraged quoters to attach an author's name that strengthened the authority behind the words.

And that is where the vice of misattribution lies. Perhaps the words speak the truth of democratic governments; or perhaps they do not. But either way, attributing the words to a scholar who never spoke them is to lend to them an authority and reliability that they do not deserve. Quotations should not be given fictitious attributions merely to lend credence to the messages they impart. To do so is to favor persuasiveness over accuracy, and to sacrifice truth for the sake of image.

[. . .]



(Also: Nothing is ever Simple ... either!)





New Whether the words themselves are true or not
the thing as a whole is a lie.

And frankly, history doesn't tend to show the transition from bondage to spiritual faith very often. Far more common is the transition from bondage to an outside power to bondage to the worst available local thugs. The skill set for revolution tends to be mostly destruction and disruption. And while bondage may sometimes lead to spiritual faith and courage, mostly it makes people mean and selfish. Ghandi and Havel are remarkable exceptions, not normal revolutionaries.

I'm not sure what civilizations are being counted in the average, or what the 200 year bit is. Is that the golden age, or does it count the rise and fall? Are we talking bondage to bondage? Golden ages tend to be short (20-100 years) and civilizations tend to linger for a long time depending on what you count as The End.

The only civilization that I know of that followed anywhere near that path is the Jews up to the destruction of the Temple, and 1) only if you take the Old Testament as a serious history book and 2) remarkable as they were, I don't think the group was big enough to count as a great civilization.

But I'm just being silly. This isn't real. This is somebody making history up to support deification of the Founders (hmmm, spiritual faith to great courage to liberty, 200 years ago, isn't that a remarkable coincidence, other than the Founders being mostly Deists and that only because they didn't have the guts to admit they were atheists) and make some school building referendum The End Of Western Civilization. You can't take it seriously if they can't even admit it is their own idea.
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
New I'll go with that evisceration..
You may have noted that I'm not big on deification (of the Fathers-of-whatever) or 'deities' per se.

I thought it an interesting er, today we might call it {ugh} framing? -- as a rhetorical rubric.
But it's boilerplate politico-babble whenever parsed back to any referents. Mainly -- was pointing out the evanescence of 'attribution' - however many mondo 'search engines' are revved up. Ain't nothin Certain in these parts, that I can see.

Which is to imply ~~ as a species we seem to do poorly about vetting the crap inculcated into us as tykes; To that exact point I heard, en passant on npr tday, of a book, Nurture Shock (!) which I think deals with that very phenom -- got it on list to look further into.

Still, Muricans will take such stuff on down to nursery-level (like Geo. Washington's cherry tree fable.)
But those FFs assuredly did have a handful of genuine outliers, IMhO, even though we turned out collectively to be so crass, sanctimonious and hypocritical -- for all the brilliant effort that went into the Launching, eh?

Anyway, I concur that such a wannabe-algorithm sucks / falls under that category: extraordinary claims need ... you know. You appear to demand a level of truthiness about as unRealistic as I would like to see, too. But all of capitalism is based upon becoming One-up / making Your share Larger by any means available (see: John Dewey's infamous pragmatism, a Holy Word implicit in the endless Self-praise of all our anthems.) No niceties required and nary a nod For truthiness -- just go out and Win it All. cha. cha.

('Course the viral-form of Vulture-capitalism ... methinks that needs a whole separate screed sometime.)
Lies.. it's our fav fast-food. Wish someone had TOLD me that! back in kindergarten -- instead of the fluffy-bunny stuff. (Scary though, when 60 yos mouth the same fantasy stuff)
And still talk about The American Peepul -- as-if a monolith.

Long way to go before sentience strikes.Have We That-much time??


Carrion





I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
     Stephen Fry on Language. - (malraux) - (6)
         I could listen to him for hours... - (folkert) - (1)
             you also watch palin's reality show digg :-) -NT - (boxley)
         Wow - (crazy)
         O excellent demonstration of the roots of casual pedantry -- - (Ashton) - (2)
             Whether the words themselves are true or not - (mhuber) - (1)
                 I'll go with that evisceration.. - (Ashton)

Unless I missed it, I don't think that they had Barbie in mind as one of the 4 horsemen.
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