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New Hardly the same thing.
You really think these AGs and their allies are going to win in these frivolous suits?

I don't.

A decent summary of the recent Michigan ruling - http://wonkroom.thin...0/10/07/aca-wins/

Cheers,
Scott.
New get obama on the stand under oath
replay his insistence that this is not a tax, then ask for his birth certificate :-) the only way it passes muster if it is declared a tax.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New get off the birther shit.
GFY.

You just can't stand NOT stirring up the pot.
New We'll see.
From the Michigan decision by Judge Steeh - http://www.scribd.co...949/Steeh-Opinion

V. Congressional Power to Tax and Spend to Provide for the General Welfare

Having concluded that Congress has the power under the Commerce Clause to enact the Health Care Reform Act, it is unnecessary for the court to address the issue of Congress’s alternate source of authority to tax and spend under the General Welfare Clause. U.S. Const. Art. I, § 8, cl. 1. Plaintiffs also challenge the constitutionality of the tax imposed by the Act as being an improperly apportioned direct tax. However, Congress is authorized by the Commerce Clause to impose a sanction “as a means of constraining and regulating what may be considered by the Congress as pernicious or harmful to commerce.” Rodgers v. United States, 138 F.2d 992, 995 (6th Cir. 1943) (upholding penalty provision of Agricultural Adjustment Act for exceeding quota of permissible cotton sales as exercise of Congress’s power to regulate commerce, where purpose of statute was not levying a tax but regulating the production of cotton affecting interstate commerce).

The constitutional limits on taxes argued by plaintiffs relate to taxation generally for the purposes of raising revenue. While these might be legitimate concerns if Congress had to rely on its power conferred by the General Welfare Clause, such is not the case with regard to penalties imposed incidentally under the Commerce Clause. Id. In this case, the minimum coverage provision of the Health Care Reform Act contains two provisions aimed at the same goal. Congress intended to increase the number of insureds and decrease the cost of health insurance by requiring individuals to maintain minimum essential coverage or face a penalty for failing to do so. Because the “penalty” is incidental to these purposes, plaintiffs’ challenge to the constitutionality of the penalty as an improperly apportioned direct tax is without merit.


Obviously, Judge Vinson in Florida disagrees thus far. Orin Kerr at VolokhConspiracy isn't impressed with the Vinson ruling - http://volokh.com/20...missing-argument/.

I think the US case is much stronger and expect them to prevail. (Shocking, I know.) Cutter at the White House summarizes the arguments very well, I think - http://www.whitehous...-ruling-florida-0 .

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New F'ing commerce clause.
Even though I support this particular legislation, use of the Commerce Clause annoys the hell out of me.

The feds use it as a get out of jail free card, no matter what the party in power. Health insurance is not a federal or cross state issue, it is a local state issue. Unless all the state level control of the medical field (licensing, patient drug rules, etc) moves to the fed level.


Note: I'm one of those insurance-less people. My income might be able allow it if I wasn't focused on paying other things, and I've only been to the doctor once in 2 years, and that was just to check in because he worries about me. I said might, though. With my preexisting condition (that causes almost no medical issues when I maintain a decent level of exercise, costs almost nothing in medicine (maybe $500 a year), and has no effect on my mortality, I'm red flagged. All of a sudden my large income is nothing next to baseline medical insurance costs.

So I'm gambling with your money right now. How's it feel?
(Cough cough. Just a minor cold. I'm sure it'll be gone in a week or so. Maybe)

Of course, while I'll be treated in an emergency, when it comes to any high tech expensive stuff that has to be scheduled, you know I won't have access to it. If it is ever time for a shoulder or hip rebuild, it simply won't be available to me.

Open market still does not exist for anyone like me. My disease and low Dr use history should be discounted, since it is a cheap disease, but it is not. So, do I take a corp job just for the insurance availability at a negotiated group price?

Do I sell my soul on the off-chance that by doing so, I'd gain a little time or comfort? And if I do, what would be the point? Less time spent with the people I love so I can live longer to be allowed to spend less people with the time I love?

Oh well. Just a few thoughts.
New I don't have a problem with it.
It seems clear to me that Madison and his colleagues knew what they were doing when they wrote that part of the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia....ause#Significance

The significance of the Commerce Clause is described in the Supreme Court's opinion in Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1 (2005):

The Commerce Clause emerged as the Framers' response to the central problem giving rise to the Constitution itself: the absence of any federal commerce power under the Articles of Confederation. For the first century of our history, the primary use of the Clause was to preclude the kind of discriminatory state legislation that had once been permissible. Then, in response to rapid industrial development and an increasingly interdependent national economy, Congress “ushered in a new era of federal regulation under the commerce power,” beginning with the enactment of the Interstate Commerce Act in 1887 and the Sherman Antitrust Act in 1890.


The Commerce Clause represents one of the most fundamental powers delegated to the Congress by the founders. The outer limits of the Interstate Commerce Clause power has been the subject of long, intense political controversy. Interpretation of the sixteen words of the Commerce Clause has helped define the balance of power between the federal government and the states and the balance of power between the two elected branches of the Federal government and the Judiciary. As such, it has a direct impact on the lives of American citizens.


It may have been stretched in some cases, but it was clearly meant to be a broad power.

As to health insurance not being a federal responsibility, I disagree. It fits under "... promote the general welfare, for ourselves and our posterity." How could it not? Medical care for the injured is something that we (all?) regard as a benchmark of a modern humane society. Prevention of communicable diseases (cholera, TB, swine flu, measles, etc.) is something that we (all?) recognize as essential for a modern society to function efficiently. The expectation for care in these cases shouldn't change on crossing state lines. Given that, shouldn't treatment and prevention of chronic disease and improvement of health in general be on the list as well? The vast majority of other modern countries seem to think so.

Hang in there.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Medicine is nationwide
Between the FDA creating a national monopoly and all the insurance companies operating on a national basis, any illusion that the States have a role is just a courtesy on the part of a few Feds.

The current system is a national disaster. It requires a national response. And that's what the Courts will eventually find, but the teabaggers will spend a lot of other people's money to get there.
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
New then why can't I buy a policy issued in idaho?
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New You work in medicine?
You have a state based license for a medical profession that requires 2+ year college with courses like microbiology or trying to cram in 200 different drugs into your head (side effects, dosage, contraindications)?

You have any idea the level of control the state based laws exert over these people, in a moment by moment basis?

The state laws vary, in many ways, in how certain portions of the field operate. A person who spends a few years in 1 state can take another couple of years to achieve a "legal" level of competency. Just by moving 30 miles into another state.

You may fantasize about the level of control the feds have, and you are partially right. But it seems you have minimal experience in nursing, which in turn ends up caring for a vast majority of the old folks as they croak, which means a vast army of state inspectors coming through each year. Checking the paper work and observing for weeks. And the observers are all powerful.

Inspector: Hey you: Did you have your hand upside-down while you were holding that tablet?
Nurse: Yes sir, that is how I was trained to do it, and have been doing it for the last 20 years. It's the sanitary way, it's the (whatever, you get the point).
Inspector: It's against the rules in this state. DING!

1 DING can get a nurse fired depending on the situation. Not often, but if the management is having issues, this is the time to fire people you don't like. And when you fire nurses during a state inspection, it shows you are working on the problem, right?

0 DINGS during an inpection is suspect. It shouldn't happen. It means the inspectors are on the take. The feds get annoyed if a nursing home does too good for too many inpections.

3 DINGS and it can cost the nursing home a failed inspection. A failure means 6 months of all hell breaking lose, inspectors everywhere. A few more in the process, they close the home.

The level of detail that each state imposes is incredible. And they are different in many stupid subtle ways.



New Not exactly, but still State licensed
Massage therapy. Yeah, I have to deal with the State.

I'm not denying that the States have their role, particulalry at the provider level.

But the financial scam (really too polite a word for the insurance system) is national. The players (Insurance, drug, hospital cartel, and to a lesser degree medical device companies. It ain't nurses bankrupting us.) operate on a national scale.

The financial disaster is national in scope, and disrupts our position in international commerce. It is legitimately an interstate commerce issue.

I am not at all a fan of the way the interstate commerce clause is abused to expand Federal authority. This time it looks legitimate to me.
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
     states have standing to sue over obamacare - (boxley) - (13)
         Just means they'll lose later. Your tax dollars at work. -NT - (Another Scott) - (11)
             thats what board of education told brown -NT - (boxley) - (10)
                 Hardly the same thing. - (Another Scott) - (9)
                     get obama on the stand under oath - (boxley) - (8)
                         get off the birther shit. - (folkert)
                         We'll see. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                             F'ing commerce clause. - (crazy) - (5)
                                 I don't have a problem with it. - (Another Scott)
                                 Medicine is nationwide - (mhuber) - (3)
                                     then why can't I buy a policy issued in idaho? -NT - (beepster)
                                     You work in medicine? - (crazy) - (1)
                                         Not exactly, but still State licensed - (mhuber)
         Standing != a case - (mhuber)

Does this snake smell funny to you?
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