Re: Attitude...

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Post #331,662 by folkert 8/22/10 11:54:18 AM Reply	Re: Attitude... That is exactly the same message I've told him time and time again. That attitude just oozes all over the place when its like his is.
Post #331,665 by SpiceWare 8/22/10 12:40:05 PM Reply	Re: Attitude... that's why I didn't forward an opportunity earlier this year, I just couldn't bring myself to subject former coworkers(some of whom I still hang out with) to him.
Post #331,672 by folkert 8/22/10 3:10:42 PM Reply	OUCH. That hurts Darrell. And the mere fact you said it openly here is another thing he needs to see. Its just to bad, he is so negative. Its the single biggest thing holding him where he is... unemployed.
Post #331,776 by lincoln 8/24/10 8:33:54 PM Reply	Re: OUCH. Its the single biggest thing holding him where he is. Wrong. The biggest thing keeping me unemployed for the moment is my last employer had me on 10 year old outdated technology for the past 2 years. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #331,780 by folkert 8/24/10 9:04:50 PM Reply	Victim with a grudge. That explains you to a tee. I see it, many others see it here. The attitude pervades your entire mannerisms. You emanate negativity, even if you don't think you do. As Scott also comments, you are alienating a large contingent of people that could help you, but choose not to because of your combative techniques. You want proof, look at Darell's post. FYI, my place of work needed a web developer about 3 months ago as we had a surprising departure. We work remotely for everything. I refused to offer you a chance to get the job. Also an FYI, we have another opening expanding... into new areas we typically don't like to go interfacing with .NET and other things like PHP and Ruby. You aren't getting a chance, even if you do find and present a resume and cover letter, your name is on the exclusion list. That is 3 jobs JUST in this thread, imagine how many you've missed else where in this group and abroad. I'm sorry you are stuck, only you can change that.
Post #331,855 by lincoln 8/25/10 9:15:46 PM Reply	your former employer's HR dept. called me in June and the discussion ended fairly quickly when they were only offering what the average kid fresh out of college with no experience is getting (according to online salary surveys). "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #331,883 by pwhysall 8/26/10 4:12:35 AM Reply	Was that more or less than you're getting now? Just sayin'.
Post #331,893 by beepster 8/26/10 9:55:04 AM Reply	and is first offer ever final? answer, no. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #331,920 by lincoln 8/26/10 9:40:18 PM Reply	There is no way that they would have begun to come up near where I used to make considering their starting point. And I had no desire to go that low, after having read enough stories on financial Internet sites that say once you cut your salary below a certain percentage, you WILL NEVER catch up to where you were previously. I'll cut my salary requirements when my property taxes stop going up the maximum allowed every year (not to mention utilities, food, college tuition, etc). "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #331,930 by boxley 8/27/10 11:03:49 AM Reply	you going to college? if you are paying for someone else to go tell them to get a job and help out. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #332,201 by lincoln 9/2/10 8:40:43 PM Reply	she does have a job but teenagers working stereotypical teenager jobs can't earn enough to save anything near what tuition, let alone, books, lab fees, room & board, etc., cost. She's paying what she can, we're paying what we can, she's got the scholarships, and the rest is loans. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #332,215 by boxley 9/3/10 10:45:48 AM Reply	that works Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #331,933 by beepster 8/27/10 12:31:54 PM Reply	You need to re-evaluate. You may never make as much as you used to. full stop. Why? you were invested in a skill that is no longer in demand. To the new company, you may even be worse than a new hire because you are coming with baggage. Obvious baggage. The new reality is, get in, get trained and jump ship to better pay. You need someone to take a chance on you, and their not going to pay a 15yr experience wage to do that. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #331,934 by Another Scott 8/27/10 12:42:21 PM Reply	Not only that. Lots of companies promote from within if at all possible. The most important thing is to get inside. There's nothing wrong with, e.g., starting in the mailroom if there's room to grow. Get inside, make a good impression, and doors can open for advancement. In lincoln's case, I think that getting a permanent job at even an entry level with an opportunity to move up is a lot better than waiting for a near-perfect fit while time marches on... Even if that entry level turns out to be a dead end, it doesn't have to be a mistake. It is employment to put on a resume (as opposed to a hole) and another point for networking. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #331,940 by folkert 8/27/10 2:48:07 PM Reply	More good advice that will... Fall on Deaf Ears.
Post #332,203 by lincoln 9/2/10 8:48:18 PM Reply	Re: More good advice that will... You presume way too much. Read my current posts from tonight. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #332,202 by lincoln 9/2/10 8:46:51 PM Reply	Already have Started this week working for a national bank. One level behind in .NET, no C#, web pages in ASP.Net and HTML, SQL Server 2005 databases. Pay well below what I made in the home town, but almost reaches what I had in the job in oil town. Commute is worse, but that's the way it goes. So far, I and the other 5 consultants sitting in the aisle spent the first three days sitting around waiting for logins and access rights to be granted. Today we started installing software and internal applications because the techies don't image machines. Funny thing is that I've been called by 4 recruiters this week - it's like they suddenly learned about my new position through karma, or something or other ... "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #332,206 by folkert 9/2/10 9:31:31 PM Reply	Advice. Don't blow it. I wish you good luck.
Post #332,216 by boxley 9/3/10 10:47:53 AM Reply	work is work, good luck Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #332,218 by malraux 9/3/10 11:11:28 AM Reply	Good luck, Brian Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #332,219 by malraux 9/3/10 11:11:28 AM Reply	Good luck, Brian Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #332,222 by hnick 9/3/10 12:03:43 PM Reply	Best of luck. Keep the attitude under your hat and a smile on your face when things get messy. Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation...
Post #332,226 by beepster 9/3/10 1:00:09 PM Reply	Good deal! Make the most of it. Don't ignore the headhunters either :-) Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #332,257 by Another Scott 9/4/10 3:09:20 PM Reply	Excellent news. Good luck!
Post #332,016 by pwhysall 8/29/10 4:40:50 AM Reply	I don't get it. You're unemployed now, right? Now, I can understand someone with a trade (i.e. a programmer) not particularly wanting to take shelf-stacking or burger-flipping work, but to be inflexible on salary? In this financial and economic climate? That's a recipe for being unemployed for a long time. FWIW, I'd flip burgers rather than do nothing. The thing you need to realise - and that which you seem singularly impervious to - is that all the feedback you're getting here, hurtful and unpleasant as it may be, is the kind of advice that is absolutely priceless because anyone who's got any kind of contractual arrangement with you, be it colleague or employer, won't give it for fear of all sorts of litigatishit. So man the fuck up, take responsibility for your situation, and start working on positive things that will move you forward.
Post #332,204 by lincoln 9/2/10 8:49:34 PM Reply	Post #35342 "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #332,208 by pwhysall 9/3/10 12:52:48 AM Reply	Best of luck with it!

So I'm preparing my laptop for the roadtrip - (lincoln) - (83) - Aug. 14, 2010, 10:43:43 AM EDT

throw linux on it if you just need - (boxley) - (82) - Aug. 14, 2010, 11:39:02 AM EDT

He won't... - (folkert) - (80) - Aug. 14, 2010, 11:47:54 AM EDT

Recommend application development software on Linux - (lincoln) - (79) - Aug. 14, 2010, 02:35:06 PM EDT

Looking from the wrong direction - (drook) - Aug. 14, 2010, 02:57:15 PM EDT

Java. - (malraux) - (9) - Aug. 14, 2010, 03:55:57 PM EDT

Java looks like something worth considering seriously... - (Another Scott) - Aug. 14, 2010, 10:54:57 PM EDT

Thread-jack. - (static) - (3) - Aug. 15, 2010, 03:34:38 AM EDT

java is the new basic - (boxley) - Aug. 15, 2010, 09:48:05 AM EDT

Java's worth as a language: - (malraux) - (1) - Aug. 15, 2010, 11:55:59 AM EDT

That's a good point. - (static) - Aug. 15, 2010, 05:06:08 PM EDT

FINALLY - SOMEONE HERE OFFERS A GOOD SUGGESTION! - (lincoln) - (3) - Aug. 16, 2010, 10:19:14 PM EDT

That suggestion was made back then. - (folkert) - (2) - Aug. 16, 2010, 10:26:28 PM EDT

WRONGO! - (lincoln) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2010, 10:06:58 PM EDT

Google "site:iwt.mikevitale.com C#" works. -NT - (Another Scott) - Aug. 19, 2010, 10:20:09 PM EDT

jboss spring tomcat - (boxley) - Aug. 14, 2010, 10:35:59 PM EDT

oh yeah - (boxley) - Aug. 14, 2010, 10:37:56 PM EDT

On the other hand - (pwhysall) - Aug. 15, 2010, 04:35:33 AM EDT

I said everything I needed to say now and back then. - (folkert) - (64) - Aug. 15, 2010, 11:36:32 AM EDT

You never helped in the first place - (lincoln) - (63) - Aug. 16, 2010, 10:49:56 PM EDT

Poor form, lincoln. - (Another Scott) - (44) - Aug. 16, 2010, 11:11:17 PM EDT

Re: Poor form, lincoln. - (lincoln) - (43) - Aug. 19, 2010, 10:11:10 PM EDT

"... and teach himself other stuff." -NT - (Another Scott) - Aug. 19, 2010, 10:18:37 PM EDT

I see you are a victim... - (folkert) - (41) - Aug. 20, 2010, 05:56:19 AM EDT

Go talk to your developers - (lincoln) - (40) - Aug. 21, 2010, 04:09:55 PM EDT

Developers for the company I work for... - (folkert) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2010, 12:09:49 PM EDT

well, I think Hell has frozen over. - (lincoln) - (2) - Aug. 24, 2010, 08:25:36 PM EDT

That wasn't your question to me though. - (folkert) - Aug. 24, 2010, 08:54:01 PM EDT

Re: well, I think Hell has frozen over. - (folkert) - Aug. 25, 2010, 08:06:37 AM EDT

Did you honestly think... - (beepster) - (35) - Aug. 21, 2010, 09:56:30 PM EDT

Hey, whattaya mean "web company" - (crazy) - (34) - Aug. 22, 2010, 03:59:32 AM EDT

Re: Hey, whattaya mean "web company" - (malraux) - (33) - Aug. 22, 2010, 11:49:25 AM EDT

Re: Attitude... - (folkert) - (26) - Aug. 22, 2010, 11:54:18 AM EDT

Re: Attitude... - (SpiceWare) - (25) - Aug. 22, 2010, 12:40:05 PM EDT

OUCH. - (folkert) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2010, 03:10:42 PM EDT

Re: OUCH. - (lincoln) - (1) - Aug. 24, 2010, 08:33:54 PM EDT

Victim with a grudge. - (folkert) - Aug. 24, 2010, 09:04:50 PM EDT

your former employer's HR dept. called me in June - (lincoln) - (21) - Aug. 25, 2010, 09:15:46 PM EDT

Was that more or less than you're getting now? - (pwhysall) - (20) - Aug. 26, 2010, 04:12:35 AM EDT

and is first offer ever final? - (beepster) - (19) - Aug. 26, 2010, 09:55:04 AM EDT

There is no way - (lincoln) - (18) - Aug. 26, 2010, 09:40:18 PM EDT

you going to college? - (boxley) - (2) - Aug. 27, 2010, 11:03:49 AM EDT

she does have a job - (lincoln) - (1) - Sept. 2, 2010, 08:40:43 PM EDT

that works -NT - (boxley) - Sept. 3, 2010, 10:45:48 AM EDT

You need to re-evaluate. - (beepster) - (11) - Aug. 27, 2010, 12:31:54 PM EDT

Not only that. - (Another Scott) - (2) - Aug. 27, 2010, 12:42:21 PM EDT

More good advice that will... - (folkert) - (1) - Aug. 27, 2010, 02:48:07 PM EDT

Re: More good advice that will... - (lincoln) - Sept. 2, 2010, 08:48:18 PM EDT

Already have - (lincoln) - (7) - Sept. 2, 2010, 08:46:51 PM EDT

Advice. - (folkert) - Sept. 2, 2010, 09:31:31 PM EDT

work is work, good luck -NT - (boxley) - Sept. 3, 2010, 10:47:53 AM EDT

Good luck, Brian -NT - (malraux) - Sept. 3, 2010, 11:11:28 AM EDT

Best of luck. - (hnick) - Sept. 3, 2010, 12:03:43 PM EDT

Good deal! - (beepster) - Sept. 3, 2010, 01:00:09 PM EDT

Excellent news. Good luck! -NT - (Another Scott) - Sept. 4, 2010, 03:09:20 PM EDT

I don't get it. - (pwhysall) - (2) - Aug. 29, 2010, 04:40:50 AM EDT

Post #35342 -NT - (lincoln) - (1) - Sept. 2, 2010, 08:49:34 PM EDT

Best of luck with it! -NT - (pwhysall) - Sept. 3, 2010, 12:52:48 AM EDT

Do you really think - (lincoln) - (5) - Aug. 24, 2010, 08:31:02 PM EDT

Attitude flows through. - (malraux) - Aug. 24, 2010, 08:43:00 PM EDT

Let's assume you aren't - (crazy) - (3) - Aug. 25, 2010, 06:53:15 AM EDT

^------- This. -NT - (malraux) - Aug. 25, 2010, 07:15:45 AM EDT

shoot me an email with the specifics - (lincoln) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2010, 09:13:14 PM EDT

Its doesn;t matter your opinion or view of the subject. - (folkert) - Aug. 25, 2010, 10:26:24 PM EDT

It'll work fine - (drook) - (1) - Aug. 17, 2010, 05:50:25 AM EDT

and if you want to be a bit more spritely - (beepster) - Aug. 17, 2010, 11:27:16 AM EDT

512? Not a problem. - (static) - Aug. 17, 2010, 06:29:57 AM EDT

my developers reside within shouting distance - (boxley) - (13) - Aug. 17, 2010, 09:08:14 AM EDT

Well, that's not a big shock - (jake123) - (12) - Aug. 17, 2010, 11:43:30 AM EDT

How so? - (drook) - (5) - Aug. 17, 2010, 11:55:00 AM EDT

Well, indirectly quoting an old prof of mine - (jake123) - (4) - Aug. 17, 2010, 12:36:46 PM EDT

no, disagree - (boxley) - Aug. 17, 2010, 01:10:15 PM EDT

Hmm, not sure - (drook) - (2) - Aug. 17, 2010, 01:43:06 PM EDT

Re: maintenance mode - (jake123) - (1) - Aug. 17, 2010, 02:26:39 PM EDT

Don't think you can plame PHP for that :-) -NT - (drook) - Aug. 17, 2010, 02:49:19 PM EDT

That's a rather negative viewpoint. - (static) - (5) - Aug. 17, 2010, 04:58:18 PM EDT

s/PHP/any programming language -NT - (drook) - (4) - Aug. 17, 2010, 06:08:10 PM EDT

Well, yes. - (static) - (3) - Aug. 17, 2010, 07:01:13 PM EDT

There's a line I remember from back before PHP won* - (drook) - (2) - Aug. 17, 2010, 09:21:40 PM EDT

Indeed. - (static) - (1) - Aug. 17, 2010, 10:43:24 PM EDT

And you can be in and out of a framework at the same time - (drook) - Aug. 18, 2010, 12:36:02 AM EDT

My sofasurfer has 512MB... - (pwhysall) - Aug. 17, 2010, 02:49:55 PM EDT

That's probably the best advice. - (Another Scott) - Aug. 14, 2010, 11:52:34 AM EDT

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