Post #331,310
8/14/10 11:47:54 AM
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He won't...
Its not what employers are using at all.
He can't take a chance at learning something to get him out of the dead-end Microsoft lock-in.
Sorry, but its the truth. He has (by his OWN ADMITTANCE) this machine sitting in his closet for 2 years. He could have put Linux on this thing and been using it to learn new things or just to even familiarize himself with it and get to know how to do things and teach himself other stuff. Its evident he likes (no matter what he says he is forced to do) working with Microsoft stuff and plans on staying in that dead-end.
Brian, sorry, but you just keep on telling your story the way you like. It is after all, your story.
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Post #331,322
8/14/10 2:35:06 PM
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Recommend application development software on Linux
You were asked this question before, and you claimed that I framed the question in such a way that you COULDN'T ANSWER IT.
Which, was, is, and always will be ... BULLSHIT!
Greg, Stop thinking of things only form a sysadmin's perspective and open your eyes to the total picture.
Let's say for the sake of argument, that I installed one of the dozens of flavors of Linux on the laptop and became familiar with it.
NOW WHAT!!!
It wouldn't get me an interview anywhere, seeing as how I would still have no Linux EXPERIENCE at a previous employer -- which is the number one reason I hear everyday from recruiters and HR drones why my resume gets shit-canned.
So, I'll ask it ONCE AGAIN, for the slow-minded sysadmins in the IWETHEY community: what software development packages and/or languages do you recommend to learn in the Linux world?
Is that framed easy enough for you Greg?
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,323
8/14/10 2:57:15 PM
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Looking from the wrong direction
You're an old-timey mainframe guy if I remember right, aren't you? In my experience people from that world start from the hardware, then pick the software, then decide what to do with it. There's the old joke that you can write COBOL in any language, and I've seen it. (In TSQL, for what it's worth.)
Instead, figure out what kind of work you want to do, what industry, and see what they're using. Then learn that.
--
Drew
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Post #331,325
8/14/10 3:55:57 PM
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Java.
Then write a website using it and some of the free enterprise software out there like GridGain and Terracotta.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #331,335
8/14/10 10:54:57 PM
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Java looks like something worth considering seriously...
http://www.careerbui...63-335141415-w4-6
Junior level Java Developer (1-3 years experience)
Location: US-IL-Chicago
Employee Type:Contractor
Base Pay: $20.00 - $30.00 /Hour
[...]
WeÂre in search of a Junior Level Java Developer to join our client in downtown Chicago. This company will TRAIN on Flex!!! This could eventually go full time/perm.
Manager is ideally looking for someone with a bachelorÂs degree in Computer Science or other technology related focus and has a Java background (1-3 years experience.
The hourly rate range will be in the $25 - 30/hr range.
It's a start.
(via http://www.indeed.co...a&l=Chicago%2C+IL )
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #331,339
8/15/10 3:34:38 AM
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Thread-jack.
I've been learning Java where I work as we're in the middle of a multi-project task to migrate from PHP to Java. The new website was built on the side of an existing Java website used by another business group and uses Hibernate, Struts2, Tomcat servlets and I don't know what other bits-n-pieces. I've also got a colleague who likes wants to add Spring to the mix, which doesn't appear difficult (Spring is already kind-of installed). Oh, and the development environment is IntelliJ, which isn't totally awful, but does try to be a little too helpful sometimes. and it doesn't help that the source code repository is an elderly CVS (no, those-in-charge don't want to upgrade to SubVersion).
So. The thing is that I'm not entirely thrilled with Java. Maybe it's because I've been solely in dynamically-typed languages for some years, but I can't find any "wow" about programming in Java. I've had a few "well, that's nice" moments, such as discovering some neat stuff with passing around collection objects. But the fact that it's normal for the IDE to generate oodles of code to pass things around is uncomfortable.
Is there something about Java that I'm not getting? Where should I be looking or how should I be looking at it all to find the "a-ha" moment? Perhaps it's just that I got thrown into a mature codebase rather than learning and building things from clean?
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #331,342
8/15/10 9:48:05 AM
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java is the new basic
no aha there, its slow creaky but you can find a ton of half assed programmers who think they know what they are doing and a shitload of cacked libraries that dont quite work as advertised
The aha moment is when you start to understand java puke and what it is really pointing at
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Post #331,352
8/15/10 11:55:59 AM
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Java's worth as a language:
1) it's much better than C++, and not much slower if at all
2) ecosystem, as Box points out
3) a large number of people know it
Compared to a scripting language, it sucks for the individual programmer. If you know what you're doing. But in a business environment it's productive enough, you can find software to get done what you need to get done, and you can find people to do it.
As far as "neat" features go, that comes mainly from the classloaders. Products like GigaSpaces and Coherence are really nice, and Java lives in that world much better than does C++. You can't find products like those (that I know of at least) for things like Ruby, Python, or Perl, not with the same commercial support and bulletproof nature.
Up to a certain size project, without needing to take business drivers like personnel availability or commercial support into account, I would personally choose Python over Java. However, I have seen first hand the problems that a lack of a large trained resource pool can cause with non-mainstream languages.
Raw technology isn't everything, much as we as technologists would like to think so. The last 6 months as an enterprise solution architect have been eye-opening to me.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #331,361
8/15/10 5:06:08 PM
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That's a good point.
You point medoicre programmers at PHP and you get shit programming, which I've seen multiple times. I saw the same thing years earlier with C, COBOL and FORTRAN. At least medoicre programmers can learn how to make the IDE do the clever stuff for them. This would be the same reason corporations like .NET.
That means the Really Interesting Java programming is happening *inside* things like Terracotta.
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #331,420
8/16/10 10:19:14 PM
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FINALLY - SOMEONE HERE OFFERS A GOOD SUGGESTION!
I've been waiting for someone to offer something of value since this topic came up in another thread a few months ago.
Considering how top-heavy this community is with Linux users,it shouldn't have taken this long to get a reasonable answer. Of course, if anyone goes back to my original thread, they'd see where I said that I've taught myself C# and and now working on Java.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,424
8/16/10 10:26:28 PM
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That suggestion was made back then.
You ignored it as it didn't involve the thing your recruiter said you had to have.
What is the change of heart?
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Post #331,568
8/19/10 10:06:58 PM
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WRONGO!
If this site had a search function I could post the URL for the postid where I explicitly stated that I had taught myself C# and was now moving into Java.
Did you forget about that or did you explicitly ignore it?
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,573
8/19/10 10:20:09 PM
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Google "site:iwt.mikevitale.com C#" works.
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Post #331,333
8/14/10 10:35:59 PM
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jboss spring tomcat
tear some apart, see how it works then apply java to the framework. Get one lowend contract job for a small period of time then extrapolate it to your bench time for the next gig
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Post #331,334
8/14/10 10:37:56 PM
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oh yeah
you could have used the time saved by trying to get a dead xp install alive doing more productive things
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Post #331,340
8/15/10 4:35:33 AM
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On the other hand
You won't have to waste hours updating all that security shite, and it won't generate "cannot write catalog files" errors.
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Post #331,349
8/15/10 11:36:32 AM
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I said everything I needed to say now and back then.
You don't/won't/can't listen and never will.
I just snipe at you now... and watch you flail.
You'll never change and I'm done trying to help someone like you.
Good luck otherwise.
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Post #331,425
8/16/10 10:49:56 PM
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You never helped in the first place
You're nothing more than a scratched record, stuck on the groove that plays "learn Linux" over and over and over ...
You have blinders on the size of basketball backboards. Just because you use Linux and, by your own admission, do not do programming for a living, you stand on your pedestal and scream "Linux" to anyone who passes by, like the homeless psychotic bum walking the city streets talking to himself. You the IWETHEY version of the Republicans who reply "tax cuts" to any problem in politics and the economy.
This old laptop has 512 mg RAM in it, and thus most current versions of Linux won't run on it. For instance, Ubuntu now recommends a minimum of 1 Gig of RAM ( https://help.ubuntu....ystemRequirements) - I wonder if it will be "zippier" than XP SP2? ...
By the way, thanks for the $20. See, I bet the wife that you wouldn't have anything of value to offer in this thread but your usual Linux crybaby act, and after reading you post above she was forced admit that I won the bet.
Here, I'll type this real slow so you can read it. If you want to be helpful, (and you've proven that you don't, but I'm optimistic anyway) sometime this week you can do this when
- arriving at work
- leaving your work area to get a coffee, Mountain Dew, whatever
- going to take a leak or a dump (or returning to your work area after taking a leak or a dump
- going out to lunch
- returning from lunch
- leaving to go home for the night
swing by the area where your programmers reside; ask for directions or have someone to take you by the hand if you need assistance finding the place), find a developer and ask him/her: "I know a guy who programs VB.Net and C# within Visual Studio in the Windows world; what do you code programs in, and do you use something like Visual Studio?" then come back and tell me their answer.
THEN, AND ONLY THEN, can you claim to have been helpful in this thread.
Oh, and to your fantasy that Microsoft is going away, they got close to $40 billion in the bank; they own the corporate desktop with Office; SQL Server matches up with Oracle and costs much less - so unless they're cooking the books like Enron, they'll be around for years to come.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,426
8/16/10 11:11:17 PM
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Poor form, lincoln.
We've all got a lot of history here. We've all got our own interests and experiences. If Greg didn't care at all or wasn't trying to help at all he wouldn't have bothered to reply. He's been, IMHO, trying to get you to look at things differently.
In the previous thread, I thought it was clear that Greg has 2 main points:
1) A person looking for a job has to have a good attitude because they need to make the interviewers have a favorable opinion. Few people want to spend 8 hours a day with someone who's unpleasant.
2) A person who wants to keep a job has to keep learning and stay relevant.
http://iwt.mikevital....iwt?postid=29835
He wasn't pushing Linux. E.g. WSDL and Soap aren't Linux. He's pushing keeping up with the technology in your field to stay relevant as the field changes. One way to do that is to work with them on your own. Unless you're made of money, that usually means being able to work with them on Linux. It's a tool that enables other tools.
My $0.02. Hang in there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #331,569
8/19/10 10:11:10 PM
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Re: Poor form, lincoln.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,571
8/19/10 10:18:37 PM
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"... and teach himself other stuff."
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Post #331,587
8/20/10 5:56:19 AM
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I see you are a victim...
As always, things you can't do.
When you stop being a victim and stop being the broken record "Can't... Can't... Can't... Can't... Can't... Can't... " then, I'll be more than ready to help you.
Until then, piss off and I'll be glad to snipe at you.
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Post #331,623
8/21/10 4:09:55 PM
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Go talk to your developers
and come back with their answers. Until then, you're totally useless in this thread, and too arrogant to admit it. Or did I frame that challenge in such a way as being too impossible for you to accomplish?
BTW, I was able to get Service Pack 3 installed the other day by running it from Microsoft's Windows Update site. We all agree that I should have been able to install it from the file downloaded elsewhere in MS's website, but that didn't work for reasons unknown. Yet, a file on their web site ran and installed it just fine.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,632
8/21/10 8:42:50 PM
8/22/10 12:09:49 PM
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Developers for the company I work for...
All are Perl, C and shell programmers.
Favored editors are "vi/vim", "emacs" and "nano/pico"
Shells are: pdksh, bash, tcsh
Versioning System == CVS
Deployment system == a homegrown app
We use Perl 5.8.x and 5.10.x on near everything.
WxWidgets for our GUI interface which is effectively a binary operator. Its interfaces with our application servers via the POE stack and all its wonderful pieces. Recently we've gone to trying out "Rose::DB" for lots of good reasons vs. DBI.
You are barking up the wrong tree here mister.
Edit: Forgot the OS everything runs on and a few other comments.
Data Center == Linux for everything
Developer's Desktop == OSX, Linux and only Virtual machines for Windows testing. Our GUI for Windows is built on OSX and the Active Perl stuff for Windows is bundled into it. Our GUI for OSX is of course built on OSX and the same setup also can build for Linux.
QA does Windows testing in VMs only, most everyone in the company now has a Cranking Primary OSX machine.
Only the President and I are on Linux. And the President is finally capitulating to OSX soon. Only one contractor still uses a Windows Laptop and that is in addition to her Mac.
Continued:
I use Linux so thoroughly that, I'm annoyed by the OSX look and feel and the way it works and its automatic-ness. iTerm while a great product has annoyances that bother me, still. Many plugins for FireFox that I need to use do not work on OSX (VMWare's Console stuff and Migration tools).
So, I use Linux for everything for me... I have a Hackintosh for stuff when I don't want to lug my Laptop around and I need a mobile computer to stay in touch for work(with a USB Cellular Dongle). I have a Macbook Pro for my youngest daughter. I have a 24" iMac for the front room. The front room iMac also has VMware Fusion on it... mainly because a State Program my wife has to use to keep uptodate on Daycare ours and stuff only runs in Windows. That is the *ONLY* Windows running this house any more.
Edited by folkert
Aug. 22, 2010, 12:09:49 PM EDT
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Post #331,773
8/24/10 8:25:36 PM
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well, I think Hell has frozen over.
A simple question asked weeks ago finally gets answered.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,778
8/24/10 8:54:01 PM
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That wasn't your question to me though.
You kept twisting it and putting specifiers on it.
Like "...that I can use on my resume that recruiter will allow" and typical things like that.
I finally answered with what I knew you'd think was your real question.
Give it a break Brian. I know as well as you do, your attitude is the big problem in your getting hired.
Game, Set, Match. Fix that one problem and you'll be in much better chances to get a real job.
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Post #331,798
8/25/10 8:06:37 AM
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Re: well, I think Hell has frozen over.
Also, here is the post that made your request into a challenge that became impossible for me to answer. I just ignored your "conditions"
http://iwt.mikevital....iwt?postid=29939
Someone sure must have pissed in your Wheaties and everyone but you can see you attitude and hostility.
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Post #331,634
8/21/10 9:56:30 PM
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Did you honestly think...
..that someone working for a web company was going to give you the answer you were looking for??? that somehow, magically, they were going to be doing that development on something other than a *nix platform?
He's given you good advice, for some reason you refuse to take it and insist on berating him.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #331,648
8/22/10 3:59:32 AM
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Hey, whattaya mean "web company"
As if it is different in non-web companies?
There is a historical mix of old stuff that people have to run, and there is the future.
The tech future will be split. Corp world (servers) will go from a 80% (pulling numbers out of my ass) MS based to < 50%, with Linux simply growing. Desktop will be MS for a LOOOONNNGGGG time. But the lock MS had in the backroom 10 years ago is GONE, and it is never coming back.
Non big corp (really, everything else, ma/pop, isp, small business, medium business, etc) does everything it can to minimize the cost of an entry point for any tech, so the only time MS goes in is when someone SELLS it in. So unless there is a vertical market app that requires it, the small vendors want to maximize their profit, which means open source. Linux rules this world already (email, file, print, web, database, application, etc).
I think the best mix of tech that Lincoln can learn is Web application front end access from windows desktop browser, combined with a decent database setup under Linux such as PostGres. If the language is PHP, then he can use the PHPEd development environment, which means a pretty windows interface combined with a debugger that runs on the back-end Linux box.
So, this gives him:
An environment to actually accomplish stuff that can be cheaply deployed.
Experience with database, apache, and PHP server setup and admin on Linux.
Experience with PHPEd, a decent development environment for a coder.
Ability to program applications that any windows desktop user (client maybe?) can run immediately.
It means he can walk into an interview and demo what he's capable of.
It means he can sell to small business cheaply.
Well?
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Post #331,661
8/22/10 11:49:25 AM
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Re: Hey, whattaya mean "web company"
Speaking to the other end of the market, enterprise (Oracle, Java, some C++) software is being developed first and foremost for Linux - Tier 1. Solaris Sparc and Windows tier 2. Weird crap like Solaris X86 and such are Tier 3.
Completely agree on the browser, excepting that retail is down to 75% IE. Corporate is still far and away IE.
Here's the elephant in the room, though: Lincoln, hiring managers can smell that attitude of yours miles away. Knowing how antagonistic you get here to people trying to help, and your overwhelming negativity, I wouldn't hire you even if you had exactly what I needed.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #331,662
8/22/10 11:54:18 AM
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Re: Attitude...
That is exactly the same message I've told him time and time again.
That attitude just oozes all over the place when its like his is.
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Post #331,665
8/22/10 12:40:05 PM
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Re: Attitude...
that's why I didn't forward an opportunity earlier this year, I just couldn't bring myself to subject former coworkers(some of whom I still hang out with) to him.
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Post #331,672
8/22/10 3:10:42 PM
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OUCH.
That hurts Darrell.
And the mere fact you said it openly here is another thing he needs to see.
Its just to bad, he is so negative. Its the single biggest thing holding him where he is... unemployed.
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Post #331,776
8/24/10 8:33:54 PM
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Re: OUCH.
Its the single biggest thing holding him where he is.
Wrong. The biggest thing keeping me unemployed for the moment is my last employer had me on 10 year old outdated technology for the past 2 years.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,780
8/24/10 9:04:50 PM
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Victim with a grudge.
That explains you to a tee.
I see it, many others see it here. The attitude pervades your entire mannerisms.
You emanate negativity, even if you don't think you do.
As Scott also comments, you are alienating a large contingent of people that could help you, but choose not to because of your combative techniques.
You want proof, look at Darell's post.
FYI, my place of work needed a web developer about 3 months ago as we had a surprising departure. We work remotely for everything. I refused to offer you a chance to get the job. Also an FYI, we have another opening expanding... into new areas we typically don't like to go interfacing with .NET and other things like PHP and Ruby. You aren't getting a chance, even if you do find and present a resume and cover letter, your name is on the exclusion list.
That is 3 jobs *JUST* in this thread, imagine how many you've missed else where in this group and abroad.
I'm sorry you are stuck, only you can change that.
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Post #331,855
8/25/10 9:15:46 PM
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your former employer's HR dept. called me in June
and the discussion ended fairly quickly when they were only offering what the average kid fresh out of college with no experience is getting (according to online salary surveys).
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,883
8/26/10 4:12:35 AM
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Was that more or less than you're getting now?
Just sayin'.
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Post #331,893
8/26/10 9:55:04 AM
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and is first offer ever final?
answer, no.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #331,920
8/26/10 9:40:18 PM
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There is no way
that they would have begun to come up near where I used to make considering their starting point. And I had no desire to go that low, after having read enough stories on financial Internet sites that say once you cut your salary below a certain percentage, you WILL NEVER catch up to where you were previously.
I'll cut my salary requirements when my property taxes stop going up the maximum allowed every year (not to mention utilities, food, college tuition, etc).
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,930
8/27/10 11:03:49 AM
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you going to college?
if you are paying for someone else to go tell them to get a job and help out.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
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Post #332,201
9/2/10 8:40:43 PM
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she does have a job
but teenagers working stereotypical teenager jobs can't earn enough to save anything near what tuition, let alone, books, lab fees, room & board, etc., cost.
She's paying what she can, we're paying what we can, she's got the scholarships, and the rest is loans.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #332,215
9/3/10 10:45:48 AM
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that works
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
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Post #331,933
8/27/10 12:31:54 PM
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You need to re-evaluate.
You may never make as much as you used to. full stop.
Why? you were invested in a skill that is no longer in demand.
To the new company, you may even be worse than a new hire because you are coming with baggage. Obvious baggage.
The new reality is, get in, get trained and jump ship to better pay.
You need someone to take a chance on you, and their not going to pay a 15yr experience wage to do that.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #331,934
8/27/10 12:42:21 PM
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Not only that.
Lots of companies promote from within if at all possible. The most important thing is to get inside. There's nothing wrong with, e.g., starting in the mailroom if there's room to grow. Get inside, make a good impression, and doors can open for advancement.
In lincoln's case, I think that getting a permanent job at even an entry level with an opportunity to move up is a lot better than waiting for a near-perfect fit while time marches on... Even if that entry level turns out to be a dead end, it doesn't have to be a mistake. It is employment to put on a resume (as opposed to a hole) and another point for networking.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #331,940
8/27/10 2:48:07 PM
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More good advice that will...
Fall on Deaf Ears.
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Post #332,203
9/2/10 8:48:18 PM
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Re: More good advice that will...
You presume way too much.
Read my current posts from tonight.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #332,202
9/2/10 8:46:51 PM
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Already have
Started this week working for a national bank. One level behind in .NET, no C#, web pages in ASP.Net and HTML, SQL Server 2005 databases. Pay well below what I made in the home town, but almost reaches what I had in the job in oil town. Commute is worse, but that's the way it goes.
So far, I and the other 5 consultants sitting in the aisle spent the first three days sitting around waiting for logins and access rights to be granted. Today we started installing software and internal applications because the techies don't image machines.
Funny thing is that I've been called by 4 recruiters this week - it's like they suddenly learned about my new position through karma, or something or other ...
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #332,206
9/2/10 9:31:31 PM
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Advice.
Don't blow it.
I wish you good luck.
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Post #332,216
9/3/10 10:47:53 AM
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work is work, good luck
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
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Post #332,218
9/3/10 11:11:28 AM
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Good luck, Brian
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #332,219
9/3/10 11:11:28 AM
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Good luck, Brian
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #332,222
9/3/10 12:03:43 PM
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Best of luck.
Keep the attitude under your hat and a smile on your face when things get messy. Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation...
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Post #332,226
9/3/10 1:00:09 PM
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Good deal!
Make the most of it. Don't ignore the headhunters either :-)
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #332,257
9/4/10 3:09:20 PM
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Excellent news. Good luck!
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Post #332,016
8/29/10 4:40:50 AM
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I don't get it.
You're unemployed now, right?
Now, I can understand someone with a trade (i.e. a programmer) not particularly wanting to take shelf-stacking or burger-flipping work, but to be inflexible on salary?
In this financial and economic climate? That's a recipe for being unemployed for a long time.
FWIW, I'd flip burgers rather than do nothing.
The thing you need to realise - and that which you seem singularly impervious to - is that all the feedback you're getting here, hurtful and unpleasant as it may be, is the kind of advice that is absolutely priceless because anyone who's got any kind of contractual arrangement with you, be it colleague or employer, won't give it for fear of all sorts of litigatishit.
So man the fuck up, take responsibility for your situation, and start working on positive things that will move you forward.
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Post #332,204
9/2/10 8:49:34 PM
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Post #35342
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #332,208
9/3/10 12:52:48 AM
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Best of luck with it!
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Post #331,775
8/24/10 8:31:02 PM
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Do you really think
that I'm exactly the same way in an interview as I am here?
Seriously, are you that delusional?
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,777
8/24/10 8:43:00 PM
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Attitude flows through.
You may not think it does, but it does. The negativity, the combativeness, these will be apparent. It is very rare that I hire someone who turns out to be completely different than they appeared in an interview. Attitude is pervasiveness, and word choice, anecdotes you tell, how you present in body language... these will all show.
Additionally, there is a whole group of highly connected IT people here that you are managing to alienate on a daily basis.
"Delusional". Case in point.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #331,793
8/25/10 6:46:27 AM
8/25/10 6:53:15 AM
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Let's assume you aren't
Let's assume you present well.
Let's assume you wow them.
And then they hire you.
And in 2 week your boss tells you to work on some legacy code.
And you tell him to f'off because they did that in your last job and kept you pigeonholed for years.
And even if you don't overtly respond, you will seethe. You are a seether. So you will be shitty to work with.
I gave you a shot years ago. I seem to recall you interviewed over the phone with me and couple of other people. Total skill mismatch, ie: you didn't offer us anything we could use, and your attitude when this started to become clear was hostile.
You need to keep in mind a hiring manager might have 1/2 a dozen positions in the pipeline, requiring all different kinds of skills. You are interviewing for something, it may be a mismatch, but a position that opens up down the line might be a good match. That 1st interview puts you at the TOP of the list for the next interview if you behave, are nice about it, and quickly accept that you are mismatch for the current one. If you try to fight it, they'll shitcan your resume for all positions since you are difficult to work with.
I had to apologize to my coworkers for your behavior. So stop telling people you are much better during interviews. You aren't. This was a phone screen run by a couple of people who were already favorable to you and it went bad fast.
Edited by crazy
Aug. 25, 2010, 06:48:11 AM EDT
Edited by crazy
Aug. 25, 2010, 06:53:15 AM EDT
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Post #331,794
8/25/10 7:15:45 AM
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^------- This.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #331,854
8/25/10 9:13:14 PM
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shoot me an email with the specifics
I'd like to check my notes from back then.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #331,868
8/25/10 10:26:24 PM
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Its doesn;t matter your opinion or view of the subject.
What matters is what the Employer sees.
I very sorry you can't get that through your head.
At least 4 jobs in this thread alone.
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Post #331,430
8/17/10 5:50:25 AM
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It'll work fine
Until fairly recently my primary desktop was a 500Mhz P-III w/ 256MB and two disks, 9G and 11G. Sure, I had to turn off the desktop effects. But as long as I stayed away from whizzy graphical stuff it worked fine.
I still have it hooked up headless. I can run a full LAMP stack (Linux Apache mySQL PHP) and it never breaks a sweat. I did Java development on it when I was teaching myself.
You may have your reasons for not learning Java, but your current hardware isn't one of them.
--
Drew
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Post #331,444
8/17/10 11:27:16 AM
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and if you want to be a bit more spritely
you could run it with the XFCE desktop, which is super lightweight and very functional. No effects at all...its designer made it specifically for lighter weight hardware.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #331,431
8/17/10 6:29:57 AM
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512? Not a problem.
I've used XP in 256Mb and whilst it didn't fly, it didn't limp either. Ubuntu would be fine in 512Mb.
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #331,436
8/17/10 9:08:14 AM
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my developers reside within shouting distance
and there is a lot of it. Java struts soap rest calls jboss and beans is the flavor of the next few years.. None of them except one would recognize c code if it bit them in the ass. The one php program we were using became mine because they got confused when they look at that.
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Post #331,448
8/17/10 11:43:30 AM
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Well, that's not a big shock
php takes object oriented, functional, and imperative paradigms and combines the worst of all three worlds.
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Post #331,450
8/17/10 11:55:00 AM
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How so?
I know PHP lets you get away with a lot of sloppiness, but what do you mean about the worst of each paradigm?
--
Drew
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Post #331,452
8/17/10 12:36:46 PM
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Well, indirectly quoting an old prof of mine
though he was talking about java... takes interpreted and compiled approaches and combines the worst features of both: slow running code and a slow dev cycle.
The big thing with php is that it makes maintaining a program you've never seen before really hard, because you have to spend a lot of time asking yourself "is this imperative? OO? What the fuck was that guy doing there?"
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Post #331,455
8/17/10 1:10:15 PM
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no, disagree
the only part you need to think about is
"What the fuck was that guy doing there?"
mod it, run it, clean it up
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Post #331,458
8/17/10 1:43:06 PM
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Hmm, not sure
Slow running is mostly a non-issue for me, since I finally got WP SuperCache working right. Whenever I post a new article, or someone comments, the relevant pages are regenerated. Everyone after that gets served a static, compressed page.
As for development time, first versions are fast as hell, with incredibly low overhead compared to Java. (Yes, you can write lightweight Java without a framework, but I've never seen anyone do it.)
I completely agree that maintenance is important enough to disqualify a language or technique if it makes it hard to maintain. But if it's written well, you don't have to question what it's doing. The corollary is that if you have to question what it's doing, the first version wasn't written well and needs to be refactored.
--
Drew
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Post #331,459
8/17/10 2:26:39 PM
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Re: maintenance mode
Yeah... tell me something I don't know ; The guy who wrote a lot of this stuff was on drugs or something.
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Post #331,462
8/17/10 2:49:19 PM
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Don't think you can plame PHP for that :-)
--
Drew
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Post #331,468
8/17/10 4:58:18 PM
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That's a rather negative viewpoint.
Most things people perceive to be problems about PHP aren't, in practice, problems to those busy using it. :-)
The biggest problem with PHP is that too many medoicre (or just plain bad) programmers are using it.
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #331,472
8/17/10 6:08:10 PM
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s/PHP/any programming language
--
Drew
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Post #331,475
8/17/10 7:01:13 PM
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Well, yes.
It's just that for some it's more of a problem. Plus the fact that PHP gets picked on.
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #331,480
8/17/10 9:21:40 PM
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There's a line I remember from back before PHP won*
The biggest problem with PHP is it's easy enough for any old idiot to use it. The really brainless ones can't even do a "Hello World" in c.
* And yes, it won. WordPress and Facebook.
--
Drew
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Post #331,482
8/17/10 10:43:24 PM
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Indeed.
http://stackoverflow...ble/316061#316061
Basically, one of the greatest advantages of PHP is that it doesn't force you into a framework. Unfortunately, one of the greatest disadvantages of PHP is that it doesn't force you into a framework. :-/
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #331,484
8/18/10 12:36:02 AM
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And you can be in and out of a framework at the same time
WordPress is one gigantic framework. If you want to write something small and self-contained within it, you still can. You probably shouldn't, but it's possible.
--
Drew
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Post #331,463
8/17/10 2:49:55 PM
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My sofasurfer has 512MB...
...and runs Linux Mint 9 just fine.
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