when msnbc thinks the prez is a tard

Post #328,068 by boxley 6/16/10 9:32:38 AM Reply	when msnbc thinks the prez is a tard http://www.realclear...tive_command.html oh well, one term comes to mind
Post #328,069 by Another Scott 6/16/10 9:44:01 AM Reply	Depends on who runs against him, doesn't it? I expect Obama will be re-elected relatively easily. But the election is a long way off. Who do you think can beat him? The speech wasn't a barn-burner, but remember that his inaugural speech wasn't either. I was disappointed by the speech, but I think it was appropriate for the circumstances. He needed to spend some time summarizing what is going on (not everybody is glued to the political blogs the way we are). The speech shows he's willing and able to learn from Carter's mistake in making a great speech in 1977 but not being able to follow through - http://www.pbs.org/w...re/ps_energy.html Making a grand speech that demands specific dramatic action from Congress right now is a recipe for failure - he's smart enough to know that the votes aren't there for that right now. I expect Obama is going to push for an energy tax (probably offset by tax cuts elsewhere to lessen the economic impact and gather support and cover), but it's going to be an incremental process. He's going to act, not just give a speech (see W's empty dramatically underfunded "plan" to go back to the Moon and Mars). Look for more in the coming months, especially as the economy continues to limp along... :-( My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,070 by boxley 6/16/10 9:52:57 AM Reply	brit view http://blogs.telegra...-love-with-obama/ Yes indeed, the romance is over. The British media have decided that it was all a cruel deception: Obama is just one more ranting populist president who will do anything to divert attention from his own failure to get a grip. Anyone who isnt drooling or doesnt have tits can beat obama, Wouldnt be surprised to see a democrat go for it in the primary. They could have stopped the oil dispersal a long time ago with a leader as opposed to a comittee. He is a shitty executive
Post #328,072 by Another Scott 6/16/10 10:14:17 AM Reply	My, things are interesing in Boxleyland. ;-)
Post #328,074 by jake123 6/16/10 10:31:16 AM Reply	Yeah right Yep, they could've capped that baby waaaayyyyy back, if only Obama had been a better leader. The fact that it took nine months the last time this happpened a little over a year ago... well, just ignore that big mother behind the curtain, and pretend she's not in charge.
Post #328,075 by boxley 6/16/10 11:04:20 AM Reply	thermite works underwater not good but better than oil in the marshes
Post #328,080 by Another Scott 6/16/10 11:28:29 AM Reply	You're forgetting the First Rule of Holes. "If you're in a hole, stop digging." Blowing up a blowout is a way to make it much worse. The blowout happened because of loss of integrity of the bore in the first place - http://en.wikipedia....n_oil_spill#April The failure of the BOP wasn't the ultimate cause of the disaster. But its failure made the spill much worse once the blowout happened. One of the reasons why they haven't attempted to install a new BOP is that the well structure probably can't tolerate being completely plugged from above. That's another reason why the only solution is to seal it from below. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,081 by boxley 6/16/10 11:29:24 AM Reply	an underwater torch is better than a spill
Post #328,082 by Another Scott 6/16/10 11:34:08 AM Reply	Explain to me what a torch or thermite is going to do. Other than make it worse. You've got a 20-some-odd inch pipe with something like 2M gal/day of oil (and millions of cubic feet of gas) coming out at 2000+ PSI. What is a torch or thermite going to do to seal that big a leak? Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,083 by boxley 6/16/10 11:37:32 AM Reply	here, have a boo apparently I am not the only one thinking along these lines http://www.facebook....topic=95&post=525 To my knowledge, anecdotal information leads me to believe that when Saddam Hussein scuttled offshore production rigs during the invasion of Iraq by the U.S. Military the U.S. Military sealed wells running wild off the coast of Iraq, (off the port of Basra), with the same methods. They weren't as deep, but they purportedly used the same methods for a quick seal.
Post #328,087 by Another Scott 6/16/10 12:05:58 PM Reply	Heh. But I'm discounting this theory as unworkable. Thought experiments are nice, but reality is a little more complicated. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,088 by Another Scott 6/16/10 12:12:42 PM Reply	Who is that mysterious stranger at the end of that page? :-)
Post #328,089 by boxley 6/16/10 12:17:17 PM Reply	my idea is different as you noticed
Post #328,094 by Another Scott 6/16/10 12:33:26 PM Reply	Where's the oxygen going to come from to "burn" it? It won't work. Sorry. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,096 by boxley 6/16/10 12:41:44 PM Reply	Doesnt need oxygen, whole point of the idea its a chemical reaction not a fire check here under water http://www.youtube.c...tch?v=d0twTXVlneY more fun here http://video.google....1843493488769585#
Post #328,097 by boxley 6/16/10 12:48:45 PM Reply	Mythbusters Toast 1/2 Ton of Thermite http://www.youtube.c...Q&feature=related
Post #328,098 by Another Scott 6/16/10 12:54:43 PM Reply	Not the same thing. That's a thermite reaction. You get similar effects dropping pure sodium or pure magnesium in water - lots of heat and lots of light. "Burning" is oxidation of something. Putting thermite in a high pressure stream of oil and natural gas isn't going to make the oil and natural gas burn unless there's a significant source of oxygen. There isn't one under the ocean. (Recall that fiery blowouts on land used to be put out with dynamite (which blows away the oxygen for combustion).) Heating up a small portion of the stream to some high temperature isn't going to solve anything. I suspect the thermite would quickly be extinguished by the rushing oil and gas (e.g. quickly buried by a coating of tar). Plus, there's the minor issue of safely supplying thermite to the well head... It's not going to work. Sorry. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,084 by boxley 6/16/10 11:38:44 AM Reply	BTW administration claims 40k bpd not 2 million
Post #328,086 by Another Scott 6/16/10 12:00:08 PM Reply	40k barrels/day * 42 gallons/barrel = 1.7M gal/day. HTH :-)
Post #328,104 by lincoln 6/16/10 2:49:48 PM Reply	Great comments here by an industry dude http://www.theoildru...93#comment-648967 First of all...set aside all your thoughts of plugging the well and stopping it from blowing out oil using any method from the top down. Plugs, big valves to just shut it off, pinching the pipe closed, installing a new bop or lmrp, shooting any epoxy in it, top kills with mud etc etc etc....forget that, it won't be happening..it's done and over. In fact actually opening up the well at the subsea source and allowing it to gush more is not only exactly what has happened, it was probably necessary, or so they think anyway. So you have to ask WHY? Why make it worse?...there really can only be one answer and that answer does not bode well for all of us. It's really an inescapable conclusion at this point, unless you want to believe that every Oil and Gas professional involved suddenly just forgot everything they know or woke up one morning and drank a few big cups of stupid and got assigned to directing the response to this catastrophe. Nothing makes sense unless you take this into account, but after you do...you will see the "sense" behind what has happened and what is happening. That conclusion is this: The well bore structure is compromised "Down hole". Go read the whole thing - it's worth your time. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #328,107 by Another Scott 6/16/10 2:58:31 PM Reply	Thanks.
Post #328,111 by boxley 6/16/10 3:17:31 PM Reply	ditto, good read
Post #328,144 by Another Scott 6/17/10 10:19:42 AM Reply	What a nightmare... Apparently there's a substantial risk of the BOP falling over and the entire well structure failing. Leading to a total blowout of the reservoir... If the BP data correctly or honestly identified four separate reservoirs then a bleed-out might gush less than 2 to 2.5 billion barrels unless the walls -- as it were -- fracture or partially collapse. I am hearing the same dark rumors which suggest fracturing and a complete bleed-out are already underway. Rumors also suggest a massive collapse of the Gulf floor itself is in the making. They are just rumors but it is time for geologists or related experts to end their deafening silence and speak to these possibilities. 80-100 billion gallons... :-( Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,650 by Another Scott 6/26/10 8:41:54 AM Reply	shelburn at TOD responds (on June 25) to DougR http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6659 A gentle but persuasive takedown. In this post, I would like to respond to a long comment made by DougR a few days ago, that has received a lot of publicity. First, I will say that in one area we are in complete agreement. BP and the USCG have been less than forthcoming, and in doing so have hurt both themselves and the general public as all kinds of wild rumors and technical misinformation abound. Some of this misinformation results in harm to individuals and businesses as people suffer increased stress and tourists cancel vacations. In this information vacuum it is easy to make wrong assumptions that lead to mistaken conclusions. It can be made worse if you have some degree of technical knowledge and verbiage and use that to make a case for a scenario that doesnÂt pass muster with actual engineering analysis but sounds highly authoritative to many people, some TV commentators and various politicians. Cheers, Scott.
Post #328,175 by Ashton 6/17/10 4:03:53 PM Reply	Just got around to reading all the TOD material, comments Correction, started-to-read.. Note there are (now many) more threads at http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6593 ditto: /6594, 6599, 6595 [in that order], 6604 ... and MORE! As. In. DOOM approaches. And I'm only in 6594. <<HOLY FUCKING SHIT>> BP liquidated ... can't UNDO what Halliburton fucked-up way-early in the drilling == the trend I see. Potentially random sea-bed leaks ad infinitum. Bring all the troops home, sell Afgh/Iraq to highest bidder, kill 90% of new military largess to Corps to refight the cold war, defund all children's health guilt-agencies: would that be a start? We won't be seeing much in the MSM, at this anxiety level -- until {___}
Post #328,076 by SpiceWare 6/16/10 11:05:25 AM Reply	British media is making sound like the US is anti-British http://news.bbc.co.u...tics/10295852.stm http://news.bbc.co.u...ness/10282448.stm
Post #328,079 by boxley 6/16/10 11:27:57 AM Reply	we are pelosi obama refer to british petroleum constantly. There is no such company. BP shares underpin a lot of pensions in the UK and the constant attack and threat of taking the company bankrupt has killed the share price. The withholding of dividends over the threatened confiscation of funds by obama has put a hurt on the UK.
Post #328,085 by SpiceWare 6/16/10 11:50:36 AM Reply	don't agree, calling something by it's old name is not anti- anything. There's a skyscraper in Houston that's called the Williams Tower, but everybody I know still calls it the Transco Tower, which was its name until 1999. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Williams_Tower Likewise Kentucky Fried Chicken isn't the name of that company anymore, it's KFC Corporation. If BP shares underpin a lot of their pensions, then that's a major financial mistake the pension planners made and the British Media should be going after the planners for fucking that up, not after the USA for wanting to make sure the cleanup is funded.

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