Post #327,104
5/31/10 12:54:59 PM
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Israeli forces kill 9 on Gaza aid ship
http://www.cnn.com/2...a.protest/?hpt=T1
The international community on Monday condemned an Israeli naval commando raid on a flotilla carrying aid for Palestinians in Gaza, leaving 9 people dead.
Israel claimed it was defending itself, with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) saying the soldiers' lives were in danger after they were attacked with "severe physical violence, including live fire, weapons, knives and clubs."
The Free Gaza Movement, one of the organizers of the aid, said that Israeli commandos dropped from a helicopter onto the deck of one of the ships and "immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians."
No clue yet which side provoked this, really could be either side.
The timing is bad for Isreal since it killed Netanyahu's visit to the US. A visit that was intended to help patch up already shaky relations. If blame for this falls on Isreal, it could lead to a major rupture in relations.
Jay
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Post #327,105
5/31/10 2:08:36 PM
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more details and rules of engagement
http://www.ynetnews....L-3896796,00.html
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other ÂdonÂt shoot, donÂt shoot, even though they sustained numerous blows.
ÂI saw the tip of a rifleÂ
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
video
http://www.ynetnews....L-3896996,00.html
http://english.aljaz...113252437484.html clearly in international waters a fact omitted on the israeli sites.
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Post #327,115
5/31/10 4:59:48 PM
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Hate to say it box
but Israel has become a fascist bigoted state. You need to face up to this reality.
They have become that which they hated... if the settlers and the super-orthodox were being honest with themselves, they would realise they are the nazis now.
Don't see much difference between "God gave us this land in the covenant" and "lebensraum".
Israel already has the ghettoes... the next question is how long before their Kolbricki?
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Post #327,121
5/31/10 5:49:15 PM
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you are confused
"if the settlers and the super-orthodox were being honest with themselves"
have a link
http://aviewfrommyba...g-against-israel/
a lot of the "settlers" are secular
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Post #327,276
6/3/10 1:07:59 AM
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Hence the and
One doesn't imply something about the other. Nor does it imply that everybody in Israel thinks in that fashion... just that the people in charge of the levers of the state do. Clearly those folks in the article you cited have been honest with themselves about it and agree with me.
Don't forget, naziism is in large part about using the power of the state against undesirable people in violent ways. How is what they're doing to Gaza materially different from what happened in Europe in the thirties?
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Post #327,280
6/3/10 8:26:20 AM
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so you agree that israel has no right to exist with jews in
charge? Well at least you are honest about it.
Don't forget, naziism is in large part about using the power of the state against undesirable people in violent ways put Israel aside for a moment, your description of naziism is flawed because it fits
the canadian government in its treatment of first nations. It fits the American Government in the case of native americans and those native americans who are from beyond the souther border. Itcertainly fits hamas who has a nasty habit of throwing PLA members off of rooftops and torturing them. Fits the Pakistanis who dont like shiites, fits nearly every country in the world, so is the world run by nazis?
Naziism to me is the desire and setting in place a plan to kill an entire race because you want to then attempting or succeeding to execute that plan. Under that description Israel doesnt fit but canada does. Interesting isnt it.
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Post #327,311
6/3/10 3:45:57 PM
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It's my humble opinion that fascism as an ideology
was the true victor in WWII.
Yeah yeah yeah... other people have done wrong things... so it's okay if Israel does it. Right, box?
Oh wait... "plan to kill an entire race" and "using the power of the state against undesirable people in violent ways" -- I'm not seeing a lot of daylight between those two statements there.
I also can't help but notice that you slipped on by the point about Gaza and the West Bank having a lot in common with (say) the Warsaw ghetto, esp. in the earlier days of the Hitler regime.
But Israel is the victim here, right? I mean, it's only when they kill people in ratios significantly greater than 1000:1 that Israel might be considered as overreacting.
Another part of fascism (and naziism is fascism with dirigiste appeals to tribalism) has to do with the alliance of capital with the state and vice versa... so yeah, the world pretty much is run by nazis, esp. in these latter years.
And, you know what? We here in Canada stopped with the residential schools. Israel hasn't; instead they're escalating. So, who should we be criticizing in the here and now?
Really, my personal opinion... is Fuck Israel.
It's also Fuck Harper... he's a goddamned tool. Sadly, we're experiencing a real crisis in leadership in this country, so the alternatives all suck.
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Post #327,316
6/3/10 5:18:45 PM
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Re: It's my humble opinion that fascism as an ideology
"you know what? We here in Canada stopped with the residential schools."
you havnt stopped in the least, look at the various standoffs you have ongoing up there with a majority of you population want them to dissapear with a small minority actively trying to do just that.
as far as israel goes fuckem, I agree, treat them just like we do iran cuba south africa china, no better and no worse.
If gaza is so fucking innocent why do you think the egyptians have them in lockdown? Because they dont want a heavily armed iranian outpost parked on their flank either.
Dont think for a minute the egyptians are doing this out of love for jews, they have their own reasons
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Post #327,319
6/3/10 7:41:18 PM
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Egypt opened the Gaza border...
http://www.reuters.c...TRE6512XD20100602
Mirroring an Israeli blockade, Egypt has kept its border with Gaza largely closed since the Hamas Islamist group, an offshoot of the opposition Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, seized the territory in 2007.
"Thank you Egypt and thank you President Hosni Mubarak," said 50-year-old Umm Hashem on a bus at the Rafah terminal, the only Gaza crossing not controlled by Israel.
"Rafah is our lifeline and we hope it will remain open. We hope this is the beginning of the end to our suffering and to this siege," she said.
Hamas officials welcomed the move but questioned its timing. It coincided with international outrage over the deaths of nine people in Israel's interception at sea on Monday of an aid flotilla bound for Gaza with the aim of breaking the blockade.
"We want Rafah to be open fully and permanently. In the next few days we will see if the opening is for real and permanent or just a reaction to the current situation," said Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum.
Palestinians have been relying on a network of tunnels dug under the border with Egypt to skirt the blockade, smuggling in anything from staples to explosives.
"The border will remain open for an unlimited time," an Egyptian source said, adding that there would be no restrictions on Palestinian movement in and out of Egypt nor on the flow of food, medical and humanitarian supplies to the Gaza Strip.
Egypt has also allowed a shipment of electric generators into Gaza, Red Crescent and border officials said on Wednesday, the first time it has let in non-food or medical supplies since Israel's 2008-2009 assault on the strip.
[...]
Israel's government is going to have to give on the blockade, and if they have any sense they'll give on other issues with the Palestinians, too.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #327,325
6/3/10 8:29:47 PM
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they could have done that years ago
wait and see when the next terror attack on Egypt occurs and what the response will be. If it stays stable Israel can simply wall off their side and call it good to go.
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Post #327,107
5/31/10 2:19:17 PM
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Some video.
http://www.youtube.c...tch?v=a-HGsWRszhQ (56 s)
My supposition is that the Gaza supporters are in the orange life jackets and the Israelis are in the dark uniforms.
At ~ 25-30 s one can see a small battle between a couple of people. One is swinging a pole of some sort at a soldier. The soldier turns around after reaching the doorway. He doesn't appear to be seriously injured or even deterred in his mission. The camera turns away before we see what he does next. Most of the people on board seem to be cowering and trying to stay out of the way.
So apparently there was some resistance at least one the ships, but I didn't see any weapons other than on the Israeli side.
It was easy to predict that some people were going to die in this incident. Israel's government and military apparently don't understand the meaning of restraint or of the "big picture". Their after-the-fact expressions of regret and blaming the people on the ship is par for the course. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #327,129
5/31/10 9:38:42 PM
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Some other stories.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #327,144
6/1/10 8:21:53 AM
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want to hear from the Oz Journo's
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Post #327,213
6/2/10 12:22:43 AM
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Rattle around on smh.com.au
That's who they work for, after all. :-)
http://www.smh.com.a....html?autostart=0
http://www.smh.com.a...0100601-wvge.html
http://www.smh.com.a...0100601-wvgd.html
There was an audio fragment from the SMH journalist yesterday on the RN website, the second link I posted.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #327,221
6/2/10 10:02:49 AM
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new vid showing stun grenades
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