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New Diesel vs. gas
What is the difference between a diesel engine and a gas engine? Why are most cars built with gas engines and most trucks built with diesel engines?
New Main difference . .
. . is ignition. Diesel injector sprays fuel into air heated by compression. This allows diesels to use crude, less volatile fuel. Such fuel is cheaper and yields more energy per gallon.

On the negative side, the injection process causes a sort of explosion which causes diesel engines to be noisy, and the crude fuel results in high levels of air polution, in particular, particulate, some of which may be cancer causing. They also smell real bad. I refer to diesel Mercedes (of which there still are some around here) as "stench cars".

Diesel was popular for awhile with "Volvo liberals", ecofreaks and other self appointed "counter culture" types because they were sure there would still be diesel during gasoline shortages. Air polution and health problems just didn't come up - they were just as good at self serving denial as today's SUV drivers. Fortunately that generation of vehicles is all in the junk yards by now.

Herr Diesel himself was a victim of the diesel engine. He just couldn't understand why the government of Germany was supressing his efforts to market his invention, so he got on a channel ferry to go sell it in England. The passenger list was short one Kraut at the other side. The German government had already decided that the low volutility of diesel fuel made it ideal for uboats, and if Herr Diesel didn't have the sense to keep his mouth shut, they would help.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus March 17, 2002, 10:15:52 AM EST
New TDI, however, is a good solution for cars
TDI = new turbo charged diesels with fancy fuel injection. The only models available in the US are from VW, and I believe they aren't selling really well. But, they're becoming very popular in Europe.

The good side? Better fuel economy than gas, with very low emissions and decent performance -- or so they say (I haven't driven one). The bad side? I believe they require a better grade of diesel (low sulfur?).

Oh, and I've also heard that lower taxes on diesel (compared to gas) are another motivation in Europe.

Since I'm not a TDI expert, any corrections or additions welcome.

Tony
New Yep, my son had a TDI VW Passat wagon.
He loved it, but since it is not marketed here in US, sold it in Germany before moving back to US. It also has pretty good torque at low RPM. These cars are less noxious because of a particulate filter that is replaced about once year.

Peugeot has a particulate filter regeneration technology to incinerate the soot so the filter is not changed. [link|www.meca.org/avecc/Seguelong(rev).PDF|PDF file link.]
Alex

"Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
New Diesel minivans
I recently bought a minivan like vehicle (9 seats) which is TDI (all the minivan type vehicles in Israel are diesel). Diesel is very popular in Israel because there are high taxes on gas (making it about $4 a gallon, while there are no taxes on diesel fuel) and in a big vehicle like a van you get much better gas mileage.
New Hey Andy - nice teaser there..
Now, what knowest thou re Herr Diesel's one-way trip? Never heard *that* story. Was that the 'end' or just the incarceration?



Gossip: the daily activity of homo-sap, in between and during wars.
New Body found floating days later.
In 1913 he had just sold the idea of using diesel engines for submarines to the French navy and was on his way to sell the idea to the British navy. British newspapers blamed it on the French, but no evidence was ever found, and many think it was suicide (he had a history of depressions).

I reject the suicide theory entirely because conspiracy theories are much more fun. Lacking a suicide note there is no direct evidence for suicide. On the other hand, he was known to be friendly to the French, Brittish and Americans, and the German navy was going gung-ho for diesel uboats.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New I was going to comment, but forgot...
...as I decided to sweep most of my comments into a single post, in stead of replying separately to you, Tony, and so on.

Just FWIW, this was the first I'd ever heard of this particular conspiracy theory; I'd say the suicide story, the only one I'd ever heard/read before, is the canonical version.

But, hey, it doesn't even look all that improbable -- I'd always wondered why the heck he'd go and do that for.



So, I see you didn't rise to my (counter-)bait about soot?

Or is it just that you haven't, _yet_...? :-)
   Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
New In simpler and more immediately relevant terms,..
...most lorries ("trucks") use diesel because it's more efficient and cheaper, and most cars use petrol ("gas") because diesel engines are -- or at least, used to be -- heavier, weaker, and louder.

This is in turn a consequence of the different ignition types, as Andrew points out. Basically, since petrol/"gas" is volatile and easy to ignite, a carburator (or nowadays usually a fuel-injection system) mixes (vapourised, is that the correct term?) fuel and air in the intake manifold, the mixture is inhaled into the cylinder, compressed, and ignited by an electric spark. Diesel, being less volatile, wouldn't ignite that way. In stead, pure air is inhaled, compressed to a *much* higher degree than in a petrol/"gas" engine, and only then is the diesel fuel injected directly into the cylinder, and ignites from the compression heat.[*] These higher compressions, and the higher pressure generated by the quicker and possibly more energy-dense combustion, require the diesel engine to be built much more robustly than a petrol/"gas" engine. Therefore it is much heavier per kilowatt/horse-power generated, or weaker per kilogram/pound of weight, and that's the main reason why it hasn't been used in cars as much as in lorries/"trucks" and buses, etc.

About the environmental aspect, yes, diesel engines tend to be more "sooty" than petrol/"gas" engines... But I wonder, isn't there just as much dirt in petrol/"gas" -- only it's not as conveniently clogged together into particles for a filter (or the cilia in your throat and nose) to pick out? Aromatic hydro-carbons are aromatic hydro-carbons, I'd think...

The interesting story behind the new(-ish) generation of "TDI" engines Tony mentions is that in a way, they aren't so new at all. Long, long ago (in the 1950's? Earlier?), companies -- mainly Daimler-Benz, but also Peugeot and probably a few others -- set out to do something about the noise (and to some extent, the weight) problem(s). Their solution was the pre-chamber and the swirl-chamber (or "vortex chamber"? Sorry, I'm translating from the German 'Vorkammer' and 'Wirbelkammer' here.), which are basically small compartments in the cylinder head, connected through a narrow channel to the combustion chamber in the cylinder. (The pre-chamber is a simple shape, and the swirl-chamber assymetric, kind of helix-shaped, so as to induce in the fuel-air mixture inside it.)

You see, in a petrol/"gas" engine, you get a "flame front" proceeding in an orderly fashion (OK, except the whole process happens thousands of times per minute... :-) from the spark plug, giving you a gradual burn of the fuel -- in these engines, actual "detonation" is considered a fault. In the original diesel engine, OTOH, that's SOP, business as usual -- and that's exactly what gives diesel engines their characteristic "harsh" sound. So these European (not to say German) engineers designed engines where the fuel is first injected into these little chambers, where it can't all detonate at once because there simply isn't room for enough oxygen in there. In stead, *some* of it ignites immediately, and it all travels through the channel out into the main combustion chamber, where more and more of it ignites as it encounters more and more oxygen.

This kind of diesel engines is what has been used in cars from at least the 1970's, possibly/probably earlier, up until about now. It has some downsides, of course: The cylinder heads become bulkier and more expensive to manufacture because you have to cast these additional more or less intricate shapes into them. And above all, there are friction losses in the interconnecting channel; the diesel engine loses some of its vaunted fuel efficiency to the pre-chamber. Therefore, lorries/"trucks", buses, tractors and just about everything else eschewed this design, continuing to _inject_ their fuel _directly_ into the combustion chamber... You see where I'm going with this?

Yup: "Direct Injection" is really just a fancy way of saying "we dropped the pre-chamber and went back to Rudolf Diesel's original design." :-) This reversal in basic design was made possible by the developing auxuliary technology; as Tony says, more refined injection pumps. As I understand it, they can now achieve the "softer burn" effect by injecting the fuel gradually, in stead of all at once. In case this seems backwards to you, a la "Why the heck couldn't they do that before?", let me remind you of the immense pressures required. ISTR reading somewhere that car diesel-injection pumps generated something like 1,100 to 1,300 bar, and this was before the (even higher-pressure) TDI generation[**]. Heck, it was a great achievement that they were gas-pedal-adjustable at all, in stead of just running at a single fixed speed!



[*]: There have also been various hybrids, like lamp-oil ("petroleum"?) motors that ignited off a "glow-ball" that was heated with a blowtorch before starting, and the Swedish Hesselman motor that was started on petrol/"gas" and then switched over to fuel oil, and the electric ignition switched off (IIRC).

[**]: I *do* recall me Dad tellin me about some bloke who, while trying to diagnose and fix a lorry engine, put his finger over the end of an injection pipe and called to his pal, "Crank 'er a few times, so I can see if this pipe is blocked!"... Drilled a hole right through 'is fingertip, Dad claimed.
   Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
New For the "non-metric", fuel injector pressure ~15,000+ PSI.
Alex

"Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
     Diesel vs. gas - (bluke) - (9)
         Main difference . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
             TDI, however, is a good solution for cars - (tonytib) - (2)
                 Yep, my son had a TDI VW Passat wagon. - (a6l6e6x)
                 Diesel minivans - (bluke)
             Hey Andy - nice teaser there.. - (Ashton) - (2)
                 Body found floating days later. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                     I was going to comment, but forgot... - (CRConrad)
         In simpler and more immediately relevant terms,.. - (CRConrad) - (1)
             For the "non-metric", fuel injector pressure ~15,000+ PSI. -NT - (a6l6e6x)

There might be poisonous gnomes hiding behind the furniture and I can't take that chance.
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