So let's do away with CAFE

Post #32,473 by Ric Locke 3/16/02 8:48:46 PM Reply	So let's do away with CAFE CAFE, like any other regulation, distorts the market; that's what it's for. Unfortunately this one had "unforeseen consequences" (::chuckle:: maybe by you) and needs to be rethought. What if you could have your big station wagon without trying to force thirty or so other people into an econobox? Because that's the tradeoff. I personally don't think the total fuel use would be a whole lot different; it might even be smaller if you could get the soccer moms and urban commandos back into cars, even cars that didn't get 30 MPG or better, instead of Lincoln Navigators. Nah, it's probably too late; the habit is set. Get out the jackboots, Heinrich, we're going after people whose cars are too big. It'll be a nice break from stamping out free speech, you know? Regards, Ric
Post #32,477 by a6l6e6x 3/16/02 9:02:48 PM Reply	Yes, and start a gasoline tax increase program. Raise federal gasoline taxes by a penny a week for the next 5 years. Use the money for funding the medical care of all respiratory problems including lung cancer as well as subsidies for public transportation. See how that changes auto buying patterns. Auto and truck pollution has had a free ride long enough. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #32,479 by Ric Locke 3/16/02 9:11:54 PM Reply	I could go for that, without the bitter vindictiveness. If you're going to distort the market, distort it at the source: the money part. It'll make a big change in the living patterns of the country, though. Have you thought through the "unintended consequences" of that? Regards, Ric
Post #32,487 by a6l6e6x 3/16/02 10:24:02 PM Reply	Re: "unintended consequences" I probably have not thought of them all and would be surprised with some. On the other hand, the European countries and Japan seem to do OK with prices at those levels. The transition is relatively slow, prices jump around more than a penny per gallon a week anyway. People could look ahead and think about what if any changes in what they do. Five years is a long time to adapt. The price of everything that is transported will go up. Things transported a long way will be at a disadvantage to similar items produced near by. Mexican tomatoes may not do as well against one locally grown (depending on season). That might reduce centralization, which is a good thing. Low income folks would be at a relative disadvantage and might need relief in some form. People will make fewer quickie shopping trips and plan their outings better. Sprawling development and long commutes will lose favor. Use of public transportation will increase. A gas station at all four corners of an intersection will become less common. Some of those gas station folks will lose their jobs. Yea, it sucks to lose some of that individual mobility. But we've been paying for that with our health and kissing Arab ass and sending our young men to Afghanistan. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #32,585 by boxley 3/18/02 12:16:36 PM Reply	We already have a hefty gas tax and the SUV owners pay a higher tax than a motorcycle driver, buy more pay for the privilege. Comparing Europe and Japan to here is silly. On my Xmas vacation I drove for the equivelent of Denmark to Greece and back and still never left the southeast USA. We have the oil capacity, just not the will to get it. People would rather send young men to die overseas than drill environmentally sound manner in the arctic. Canada's oil shale has a larger capacity of oil than Saudi Arabia. Cuba has offshore reserves she cannot exploit since we share the same area. If the Gummint would treat with Castro we could have a pile of oil and they could have an economy. More than 75% of the price at the pump is already taxes. Why tax it more? If you wish to socially engineer people to stay put and make travel prohibitive we will get even more regionally secular. That would be a bad thing. thanx, bill The Bill of Rights, Void where ptohibited.
Post #32,622 by a6l6e6x 3/18/02 2:50:07 PM Reply	Current taxes are used for highways. That's an obvious use tax. The more you use, the more you pay. I'm suggesting that gasoline users also pay for the significant environmental and health damage that they cause. As I said before, they are getting a free ride in that department. Not terribly different from me dumping hazardous material into what becomes your water supply. It might be very convenient for me. And, I do pay for the pipes that lead to the lake. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #32,623 by boxley 3/18/02 2:54:40 PM Reply	5 cent a gallon fed envirotax is still there unless they repealed it. This goes to the superfund. thanx, bill The Bill of Rights, Void where prohibited.
Post #32,635 by a6l6e6x 3/18/02 4:47:00 PM Reply	Re: More than 75% of the price at the pump is already taxes. [link\|http://www.api.org/newsroom.cgi?id=I002108&cat=Research+Papers\|From API American Petroleum Institute:] In August 2001 the taxes collected on a gallon of gasoline amounted to 42 cents, including 18.4 cents per gallon in federal taxes, and 23.6 cents per gallon in volume-weighted average state taxes. I would say that's less than 30% of the average price nationally. YMMV, but it's not 75%. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #32,715 by boxley 3/19/02 9:21:43 AM Reply	you forgot city and county which in West palm is 26cents The Bill of Rights, Void where prohibited.
Post #32,745 by a6l6e6x 3/19/02 1:40:53 PM Reply	Ah yes, get the tourists tax. I always fill up in Georgia on way Pembroke Pines, FL. But, of course, there is no way to get back without filling up once in Florida. Well, you have not income tax, and this is one way to take some money from you (and us). Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #32,747 by boxley 3/19/02 2:11:14 PM Reply	Yep I am always on empty at the Georgia line. The Bill of Rights, Void where prohibited.
Post #32,566 by drewk 3/18/02 10:33:10 AM Reply	Not the only option What if you could have your big station wagon without trying to force thirty or so other people into an econobox? Because that's the tradeoff. That's not the only possible tradeoff. For the manufacturers, they were faced with the choice of: figure out how to make even our big vehicles more fuel efficient; or take advantage of a huge loophole in the regulations and simply make something that isn't covered by it. If that loophole hadn't been big enough to drive a Cadilac Esplenade throught, they might have pursued the original goal of the legislation. I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make. I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.

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