Think, man

Post #310,738 by beepster 7/10/09 10:21:47 AM Reply	Think, man tanks, bombs, airplanes, boats, radios... Iraq was/is a skirmish..fought largely with inventory and existing services. Not at all suggesting that we need to start a world war to work out the economy...the word here is "public works". Think its obvious that some bridges need to be fixed (given the disaster in MN). Won't even talk about the disaster waiting to happen in NYC because of theirs. Been on the PA turnpike lately? Could use ALOT of repair and a 3rd lane. How about getting the US a high speed rail system? These are things with real value that create jobs immediately. Show me this http://contexts.org/...timulus_large.gif here. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #310,762 by jake123 7/10/09 2:33:13 PM Reply	I agree 100% This is crucially important for the long term prospects for your country. Esp. the high speed rail, as oil heads back up into auto da fe territory for airlines. FWIW, we're having troubles getting that train out of the station up here... the guy running the show up here is as regressive and reactionary as they come.
Post #310,765 by drook 7/10/09 4:16:02 PM Reply	Forget high-speed, how about commuter rail In the 60s and 70s they paved over most of the commuter rail lines in Cleveland. They used to have a nice system, and even had voter approval on a referendum to build a subway system downtown. But the wrong people on city council supported it, so the rest of council killed it with red tape. Now we have two-and-a-half spokes connected to a hub downtown. One spoke goes to the airport, one goes to University Circle (major medical center) and the half branches off to go into one of the worst neighborhoods in Cleveland. About 15 years ago they added a spur to go down to the entertainment district ... and only ran until midnight on Friday and Saturday, guaranteeing no one would ride it. Then they came in and killed the entertainment district anyway, so a friend of the mayor could turn everything into condos. If they added two more spokes east and west along I-90, and a loop heading south that connects the ends of all the spokes, they'd have plenty of riders. But it's very chicken-and-egg. They won't build it because no one takes the train; no one takes the train because it doesn't go where they need it. -- Drew
Post #310,768 by beepster 7/10/09 4:52:38 PM Reply	because they expect it to be profitable which it will never be, which is why gov has to build it. (which even the libby in me understands) I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #310,770 by drook 7/10/09 5:10:13 PM Reply	True, unlike roads There was that recent story about Michigan un-paving some rural roads, turning them back into gravel because they couldn't afford to maintain them. There's got to be a way to use that to influence people. Stop pouring millions of dollars into extending freeways farther and farther into rural areas, enabling people to move farther out. Increase gasoline taxes to reflect the true cost of maintaining that infrastructure. Maybe if people had to bear the full cost they would choose to live closer to the city. And with increased population density the financials for light rail start to make more sense. (Yes, this is pretty much Kunstler's main thesis of the last few years.) -- Drew
Post #310,787 by static 7/11/09 7:12:00 AM Reply	Governments don't understand public transport. Almost without fail, they seem to expect public transport systems, especially train systems, to make money hand over fist. But usually they don't, particularly in the sort of urban density most of the western world live in. :-) Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.

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