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New TANSTAAFL
BS. More Disneyland physics obfuscation for the fantasyland-dwellers.
F [Still] == M · A
K.E. [Still] == ½ M · V squared


China or the Middle East
Report Comment by brantag @ 8:01pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
Perhaps you do not understand the economics and/or the science behind electricity and oil. First most of our oil comes from the Middle East--this is transformed to fuel (gas and diesel). Second, most of our electricity comes from coal that comes from USA. Plus, with the additions of renewables (wind, solar, etc) electricity and electric-powered vehicles are the wave of the future. I guarantee that MUCH carbon is produced in refining oil for diesel that it takes to power a hybrid. PLUS, have you even looked at the tax credits and incentives the oil companies get? Google it. Not that the coal companies get any less, but maybe, just maybe, it's time to reconnoiter all this mess.



http://www.ksl.com/i...313&comments=true
New There are lunches less costly, however
I suspect that the energy consumption involved in generating electricity to charge electric cars does not have the overhead involved in using petroleum directly to fling these gigantic armchairs (as I believe an appalled Nikita Khruschev described the fundamental particles of our automotive culture on his first visit here in 1959) around our cities. Since we can't cold-turkey our freewheeling ways, it seems meet that we investigate some courses of tech-based methadone.

cordially,
New Re: There are lunches less costly, however
But exactly how much less costly when you figure in manufacturing and disposing of batteries and include environmental costs related thereto?
New Was addressing the implicit absurdity in this puff-piece --
Suggesting nay Encouraging.. the fallacy that:
You CAN continue to throw all manner of resources into, create many new toxics while -- building 5000# + Living Rooms on Wheels, just like you always did
[cf. The 1959 Cadillac fin-with car attached.]

Hybrids indeed have their place in evolving experiments, as techno-illiterates imagine that throwing $$ at energy storage problems just m i g h t escape the Laws of physics (and chemistry.) Not to mention.. entropy. Methinks that , even as they are now: hybrids are ~ideal for taxi service (especially in a place like say, SF -- where regenerative braking can recapture a % of the up-hill energy expenditure.) And with a time-based warranty on that bettery pack; all those discharge cycles in a taxi's life -- get subsidized by Toyota, though probably that warranty will be nixwd for 'fleet service'. Oh Well.

That HumVee OTOH, with its drag-coefficient about like your screen door, m i g h t achieve 100 mpg at 30 mph on a flat road, toting all those batteries + its std. arrogant-Mass. F=MA; accelerating that mass around the very-same SF: compare with a Prius on same course. Let's see the SF + 60/70 mph figures. Any 'reporter' unacquainted with inertia, kinetic energy and similar HS-physics would have smelled a rat.

Etc. Disneyland physics is rampant amidst iggerant legislators, reporters like this -- and the gullible reader who is their (l)awful prey.
Hope Obama took some science courses along the way, but Mr. Chu, ex-LBL shall assuredly save him from fantasy-dead ends like, the Green Hummer;
Chu Knows about physics, and
... it's The Law.




New Oil Imports (possible nit)
In your citation, they say "First most of our oil come from the Middle East"...

While we, as a nation, are focused on the Middle East (for our own reasons), most of our oil actually comes from Canada and Mexico according to this:

http://www.eia.doe.g...rrent/import.html

[...]

"Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in February, exporting 2.512 million barrels per day to the United States, which is a decrease from last month (2.544 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1.364 million barrels per day."


New shh, dont annoy the true beleivers :-)
New Give it time...
Yeah, too many people conflate "proven" reserves, production, and exports to the USA.

Given current trends, though, Mexico is going to be a net importer before too long (Canterell is collapsing). Canada has big (unconventional) reserves, but a lot of it is expensive to produce and may not ever be profitable.

So, given current trends, Saudi Arabia may be our biggest supplier in a decade or two. (But it's unrealistic, of course, to think that any trend will continue exactly as current trends indicate for the next 10-20 years.)

On Mexico: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2226
On Canada: http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/2889

Cheers,
Scott.
New this guy is not a blogger, sycophant, thinktank maven
economist, government employee or a flack. He does something that all of us remember from a dim past, work for a living. I suspect he may be a Canadian because he follows the edmonton oilers so veracity may be a problem.
here is a few pics that he purports is from those hard to extract, uneconomical oils shales sands in Canada
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil1.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil2.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil3.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil4.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil5.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil6.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil7.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil8.jpg
http://home.comcast....liaoxley/oil9.jpg
http://home.comcast....iaoxley/oil10.jpg
New Re: this guy is not a blogger, sycophant, thinktank maven
Words like that from the Human Events wacko-vocab , the usual crude deriding of any semblance of scientific literacy -- makes one not some vaunted Hero Skeptic, but just another mouth-breather agin them-smart-college guys; sounds like My Gramma and..

..and does not Convince.

Further, the fact of the politics of science-iggerant massively Corporate-funded Reps guarantees that 'scientific literacy' shall continue to be beside-the-Point: until there is public funding of all Representative elections and full disclosure of every lobbyist's contributions: this info prefacing every bloviation on the public record. Doable, not even hard to enact -- but odds remain slim when only the rich can buy a Rep.

Apples, oranges. Mobs/pitchforks. Muricans are ~uneducable, in the mass.


The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
-- H.L. Mencken
New oh I forgot, retiree :-)
New Those pics are all from the showroom, not the jobsite
Zero relevance to how hard to extract the oil sands are.

The biggest problems with the oil sands are groundwater contamination, river contamination, destruction of the local ecosystem, and massive CO2 production.

The natives downriver from those megaprojects are beginning to seriously bitch about how the fish they catch taste like petroleum and that they can't help but notice that a lot more of their people are kicking off from weird cancers at young ages.
New jobsite guarrantee
     not going to get rid of humers that easily - (boxley) - (20)
         TANSTAAFL - (Ashton) - (11)
             There are lunches less costly, however - (rcareaga) - (2)
                 Re: There are lunches less costly, however - (Andrew Grygus)
                 Was addressing the implicit absurdity in this puff-piece -- - (Ashton)
             Oil Imports (possible nit) - (dmcarls) - (7)
                 shh, dont annoy the true beleivers :-) -NT - (boxley)
                 Give it time... - (Another Scott) - (5)
                     this guy is not a blogger, sycophant, thinktank maven - (boxley) - (4)
                         Re: this guy is not a blogger, sycophant, thinktank maven - (Ashton) - (1)
                             oh I forgot, retiree :-) -NT - (boxley)
                         Those pics are all from the showroom, not the jobsite - (jake123) - (1)
                             jobsite guarrantee -NT - (boxley)
         The TV reporting is hype. - (Another Scott) - (7)
             The Real Question Is... - (pwhysall) - (6)
                 The Hummer is simply an intimidation vehicle... - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                     AND surprisingly SMALL women... - (folkert) - (4)
                         Well, there's is even smaller . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                         Most of the people I see driving them around here... - (malraux) - (2)
                             Re: Most of the people I see driving them around here... - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                 I'm guessing it's just furthering the sour... -NT - (malraux)

I have neither space nor cash nor latitude to adorn my house with any more things with CPUs in them.
56 ms