IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 1 active user | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New The poor are poor because they don't have enough money.
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082801669.html?nav=hcmodule|Steven Pearlstein] column at the Washington Post:

[...]

The best refutation of this argument that I've seen in a long time is contained in a new book, "The Persistence of Poverty," by a friend of mine, Charles "Buddy" Karelis, a professor at George Washington University. Karelis isn't an economist or social welfare expert but a philosopher by profession with wide-ranging curiosity, a dry wit and a weakness for unconventional wisdom. And after doing lots of reading and giving it extensive thought, Karelis concluded that the reason some people are perpetually poor is that they don't have enough money.

Let me say that this isn't as self-evident, or tautological, a truth as it might appear. Rather, the argument goes something like this:

The reason the poor are poor is that they are more likely to not finish school, not work, not save, and get hooked on drugs and alcohol and run afoul of the law. Liberals tend to blame it on history (slavery) or lack of opportunity (poor schools, discrimination), while conservatives blame government (welfare) and personal failings (lack of discipline), but both sides agree that these behaviors are so contrary to self-interest that they must be irrational.

After all, the reason we study, work, save and generally behave ourselves is that these behaviors allow us to earn more money, and more money will improve our lives. And, by logic, that must be particularly true of the poor, for whom each extra dollar to be earned or saved for a rainy day is surely more valuable than it is for, say, Bill Gates.

In economics, this insight -- that the fifth ice cream sundae is less valuable than the first one -- is enshrined in the law of diminishing marginal utility.

But what if this iron law of economics is wrong? What if it doesn't apply at every point along the income scale? If you and everyone around you are desperately poor, maybe it's perfectly rational to think that an extra dollar or two won't make much of a difference in reducing your misery. Or that you won't be able to "study" your way out of the ghetto. Or that if you find a $100 bill on the street, maybe it's logical to blow it on one great night on the town rather than portion it out a dollar a day for 100 days.

On the other hand, maybe the point at which people are most willing to work hard, save and play by the rules isn't when they are very poor, or very rich, but in the neighborhoods on either side of the point you might call economic sufficiency -- a motivational sweet spot that, in statistical terms, might be defined as between 50 percent ($24,000) and 200 percent ($96,000) of median household income. And if that is so, then maybe the best way to break the cycle of poverty is to raise the hopes and expectations of the poor by putting them closer to the goal line.

[...]


There's more than a grain of truth to that reasoning. A person making minimum wage ($234 a week - Gross) and saving $5 a week isn't going to get out of poverty very quickly - if at all.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Really!?!
Smile,
Amy
New I've been blinded by a flash of the bleeding obvious!
The poor remain poor because poverty destroys the self-belief they need to find a way out. Gee, never noticed that when I've met poor people. They typically blow what little money they do get because they can't see how investing that small amount in education, for example, will be achieve anything. What a revelation!

I wonder if he'll work out that subcultures that don't value education tend to be poorer? That should be his next book.
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New Not exactly what he had in mind
This isn't an argument that poor people make bad economic decisions. Rather he is arguing that they are making decisions that are rational from their perspective.

Investing 10 dollars in the saving account would just reduce their poverty from 100% soul crushing to 99.9999995% soul crushing at some point far down the road, assuming they live long enough to collect. But winning the lottery would get them out of poverty entirely, now. Suddenly the lottery ticket idea doesn't sound so bad.

Personally, I think he has a point. But I think the idea that the poor often have a short sighted and self defeating culture is also true. Which has more impact is something I will have to think about.

Jay
New Been poor.
If you are working your ass off for subsistence, you snatch at chances for respite - any respite - when you get the chance. If you try to get ahead, most likely, any gains will be snatched from you by circumstance (health, accident, etc.) anyway, so the temptation to 'live for the moment' can be overwhelming. Especially since looking to the future can be REALLY depressing. It takes real strength, drive, stubbornness (in my case, bloody-minded anger) AND luck to escape.

When you have NO discretionary cash, and you've had what little gains you've made taken away from you repeatedly, when you live in despair - a tiny bit of luxury can keep you going.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New Exactly.
New I only had a dollar to live on till next sunday
so I spent it all on comfort for my mind
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Driving down a highway made of snow
made of snow, made of snow....
     The poor are poor because they don't have enough money. - (Another Scott) - (7)
         Really!?! -NT - (imqwerky)
         I've been blinded by a flash of the bleeding obvious! - (warmachine) - (5)
             Not exactly what he had in mind - (JayMehaffey) - (4)
                 Been poor. - (imric) - (1)
                     Exactly. -NT - (Another Scott)
                 I only had a dollar to live on till next sunday - (boxley) - (1)
                     Driving down a highway made of snow - (jake123)

We're on a mission from GRR.
43 ms