Catastrophic bridge collapse in Minneapolis.

Post #290,159 by a6l6e6x 8/2/07 2:02:48 AM Reply	Catastrophic bridge collapse in Minneapolis. [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/us/02bridge.html\|NY Times]: An Interstate highway bridge in downtown Minneapolis loaded with rush-hour traffic dropped more than 60 feet into the Mississippi River last night, sending at least 50 vehicles and passengers into the water. Chief Jim Clack of the Minneapolis Fire Department said at least 7 people were killed and more than 60 were injured. The Star Tribune of Minneapolis, citing the State Patrol, reported that 20 people were missing. On TV, the mayor said something about the bridge's "unique design". I wonder what that is and if it contributed to the failure. Alex Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law. -- Sophocles (496? - 406 BCE)
Post #290,161 by Andrew Grygus 8/2/07 2:14:29 AM Reply	The scapegoat is e'n now being assigned. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #290,162 by Steve Lowe 8/2/07 2:18:38 AM Reply	Re: Catastrophic bridge collapse in Minneapolis. I've driven that bridge many times - it's a major, major arterial between Minneapolis and St. Paul. I understand that the bridge had been inspected in each of the last 2 years and given a clean bill of health. There was construction going on, but it was resurfacing the roadway, not structural. Be interesting to see what they find out as they investigate this. Meanwhile, heart goes out to the people involved - they're in my thoughts and prayers. -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #290,163 by a6l6e6x 8/2/07 2:31:49 AM Reply	Yep, it's a sad day and my heart goes out those folks! Joe (jbrabeck) lives, or used to live, in the general area. Alex Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law. -- Sophocles (496? - 406 BCE)
Post #290,171 by jbrabeck 8/2/07 8:04:58 AM Reply	Still work here I was in a city council meeting when it happened. The meeting was interupted to announce what had occurred and to give people a chance to call if needed. I figured that I didn't need to call since I live east of there. Trouble was my wife had forgotten that I was going to be at the meeting, and while watching the news coverage, saw a car that looked exactly like mine, upside down in the river. By the time the meeting was over, and I was able to get to my cell phone I had a number of missed calls/voice mails from her... Next time, I'll call... A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #290,177 by Another Scott 8/2/07 8:52:01 AM Reply	I hope she's happy you're Ok rather than upset! :-)
Post #290,178 by jbrabeck 8/2/07 8:54:45 AM Reply	After making me wear supper she was quite happy to see me, even with spaghetti draped all over my head. A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #290,172 by jbrabeck 8/2/07 8:13:08 AM Reply	Not quite right This bridge connect downtown Minneapolis to the north. St. Paul and Minneapolis are connected via I94, running east-west. As Andrew stated, they are looking for someone/something to blame. Terrorism has been ruled out. Bridge did pass state safety inspections in 2005 and 2006. There was a federal test done in 2001 that noted some structural deficiencies. Also in 2001, the U of MN engineering department performed stress tests on the bridge. Some metal fatigue was noted, but nothing significant. Bridge was rated as safe for another 20 years. Good thing that there was the maintenance being performed on the bridge (concrete roadway repair, nothing structural). That limited the traffic to 10mph and only 1 lane each way, down from 65mph with 4 lanes each way. At that time of day, all 8 lanes would have been packed, with commuters heading home (north bound) and Twins fans heading to the game (south bound). The Minneapolis commute will not be fun for many a year. I'm glad I have no reason to travel that part of the Twin City freeway. A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #290,169 by hnick 8/2/07 7:13:39 AM Reply	Re: Unique design I heard about it on NPR on the way into work. They said that it was a rather long span bridge (as opposed to a suspension bridge or having a middle support.) Four hundred something feet of unsupported span sticks in my mind but I wouldn't swear to it. I was dodging morons at 75 mph at the time :/
Post #290,173 by jbrabeck 8/2/07 8:14:31 AM 8/2/07 8:27:03 AM Reply	Long span And metal grid work instead of the newer concrete. I don't know the length of the span, but it was across the entire river. From the Strib "The 1,907-foot bridge". A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright) Edited by jbrabeck Aug. 2, 2007, 08:27:03 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #290,246 by rcareaga 8/3/07 1:37:41 PM Reply	So this is the bridge to the 21st century \ufffdand it collapsed under the weight of all those chickens coming home to roost. I hesitate to make too much of this, given the tendency of many a commentator over the years to hitch his favorite hobbyhorse to the désastre du jour (you know, the type who'll claim the Columbine shootings were the result of godless Darwinism in the school curriculum), but I think the case can be made that this latest manifestation of "infrastructure rot" is in its way another instance of blowback, another hidden cost of empire. Between squandering our treasure in the sands of distant Araby and the manifest costs of indulging a civic ethos of private opulence and public squalor (only please to call this "rugged individualism," which sounds so much nicer than "divide and conquer," don\ufffdt you think?), we are beginning to learn that there are consequences to disdaining rational thinking and the long-term view when we formulate public policy. Or am I being optimistic here? cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #290,250 by boxley 8/3/07 2:52:32 PM Reply	last time we wanted a bridge to the airport the entire country howled about not paying for it. Infrastructure is hugely expensive to build and once built no one wants to own maintenance costs. As a local bloviator said they had money for a new stadium, museums, bear exhibits but no money for bridge repair. thanx, bill Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #290,291 by a6l6e6x 8/4/07 1:17:33 PM Reply	Please, not the bridge to nowhere. $250M for bridge to an island with 50 residents. There is no shortage of land in Alaska. Move the frickin airport! The Feds need to pass on the collected fuel taxes in a state to the state w/o Congressional pork barrel back room deals. If the Feds do minor coordination and monitoring of the proper expenditure of these funds we'd get much better return on the buck. Congress is unfit to make local decisions. Alex Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law. -- Sophocles (496? - 406 BCE)
Post #290,299 by boxley 8/4/07 6:42:12 PM Reply	move the frikken airport where? to the mountain side? Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #290,300 by Another Scott 8/4/07 6:58:40 PM Reply	Yeah, the geography's a problem. [link\|http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gravina+island&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.462243,60.556641&ie=UTF8&ll=55.351793,-131.694489&spn=0.052604,0.118275&t=k&z=13&om=1\|Google Maps] for the proposed "Bridge to Nowhere" location. It doesn't look like a good use for the money. [link\|http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/08/09/bridges/index.html\|Salon]'s story about it (and the other proposed bridge for Anchorage) makes it sound like a boondoggle. Sen. Stevens should have made a better case for it, rather than throwing tantrums, if it really was a good use for the money. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #290,256 by Ashton 8/3/07 5:38:10 PM Reply	Must take issue with (And sadly, as always) we are beginning to learn ... UPS driver.. local haircutter.. other random encounters suggest that this particular %we does not appear to be increasing. Has the collective achieved Experience-proof-ness? Are they now only outliers who can still recall the phrase, guns and butter? How does one teach Not-learning, So Well? (And, was that process patented yet?) The comments thus far heard, from Profs of CE and the like - suggest that the 'points scale' to assign risk-levels of things like bridges, derives from more than a soup\ufffdon of gut-level intuition, naturally informed by experience. About as satisfying as the assignment of IQ numbers (?) Oblig in olden times ref - Thanks be to Cthulhu that, long before my arrival - the attic space was well and truly inundated with strange rock-wool looking? insulation, rendering biped-space habitable via mere fan (or on sizzlers as shall be coming more often: the breadbox-size Israeli-designed swamp-cooler box, perfectly adequate for 'personal space'.) One does Soo like to beat the system(s) Yet with one's own water-supply and waste bug-biology systems to be utterly responsible for, maintenance is never optional. Now then ... when cheap roll-out like-roofing Solar cells arrive - I see I see a garage-as-Power-plant, too. Infra-Red Structure!

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