Post #28,598
2/16/02 1:00:57 AM
|
Feeling suicidal again
but haven't attempted anything. Unable to get into doctor's office, but if I start to slit my wrists or start my car with the garage door closed, I will most likely check myself into a hospital. Doctor's office may not take my wife's insurance as I no longer have the insurance from my former employer. They really stressed me out, and harassed me so bad that I haven't recovered from it yet. I feel like I am ruined from working any job, I feel like I cannot even handle that $9/hr helpdesk job. I feel like blowing my brains out over it, or pouring gasolene over myself and lighting a match. My church doesn't want to see to help, no support group there, I cannot find the local suicide prevention hotline, my phonebooks are missing, and the papers I got from my last hospital visit are gone (I think my wife pitched them out in a cleaning fit). So how can I fight this and stay alive?
Life is not fair, and is so unfair that the really evil and nasty people get all that they want, and screw over anyone that is not like them. These people are the bullies that used to pick on geeks like me in high and middle school, and they have gotten positions of power and/or wealth and unless you are in their inner circle of popular people, you cannot start to earn more. They make things hard for the rest of us and harass and pick on us, then the others learn to harass or pick on us or become like us and get harassed and picked on. This goes all the way back to pre-school when a group of kids would like start kicking me and knocking me down when the teacher was not looking. Same sh*t happens to me my entire life, and then the others start joining in. As adults the kicking and punching stops, but the verbal, mental, and emotional abuse starts in the workplace. The management is too much of a wimp to do anything about it, or is in on it. Being a jerk or bully is not against the law, and the firm can cover up any wrong-doing in case it gets out of hand. Then later get rid of the person that was picked on and complained about it.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
Post #28,610
2/16/02 2:02:03 AM
|
I don't have all the answers
Perhaps no-one does. But you're not the only one who's even been in this position. The bright side is that many, many people get over it.
Now I know a web page isn't going to be a magic instant fix, but maybe you could have a look at some of the following
[link|http://www.suicidology.org/crisiscenters2.htm|Go here.] This site has a couple of crisis lines in St. Louis you can call. Just select the state, and hit go. So not having a phonebook is not a problem.
And [link|http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/|this] is a bit of writing from someone who's been suicidal and got through it.
There are plenty of things available just doing a simple google search on suicide prevention. There's stacks of information out there.
I know I'm half a world away, but I hope this can be of a least a bit of assistance.
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
|
Post #28,616
2/16/02 2:20:46 AM
|
There are times I've felt that way
but if you end it, that's it. Nothing more. Nada. Zilch.
The human race, medicine, longevity, all may have all sorts of implications. But those of us living today *might* be able to seek immortality. (Ben Bova wrote a book about it.)
Think about it. Short-term depression versus long-term immortality. Me, if I knew I had terminal cancer with "x" options to treat it, I'd try to hang on as long as I could, just on the chance that one of the weird treatments they are trying might lead to a cure.
Meanwhile, I'd play Everquest or Wizardry 8.
Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt, from his Recluse series
|
Post #28,653
2/16/02 12:52:36 PM
|
Life will never be completely fair...
because it's am untidy universe. All this free will running around.
But the bad guys don't always win, and the good guys don't always lose. Quitters always lose, though, no matter what their moral position.
I once tried giving up, and letting things slide, just so I could get some rest. I regretted it. Never again. In the long run, I didn't even get the rest I'd hoped for. Things fall apart fast when you let the bad guys take the initiative. There are no guarantees of success if you fight, but there's just no upside to quitting. None at all. So you may as well fight tooth and nail.
I'm thinking the bullies you grew up with were smarter than the ones I gre up with. Mine all went on to be petty criminals and convicts, or to die young in stupid drunken accidents. I might have gone to a wake, just to gloat, but I decided it was beneath me.
Still, the evil bosses I used to run into have to have come from somewhere. Few of them have struck me as happy people. I think they just take out their (usually) secret frustrations out on those who don't resist. The universe is trying to tell them not to be such assholes, by screwing up their personal lives, but they're just not listening. The guilty don't get off scot free, and I'm fine with that. But the innocent suffer, too.
My heart bleeds for the truly helpless, who cannot defend themselves. But not for those who can defend themselves, but won't, for whatever reason. I tried that for a while, in my younger days. Never, ever again.
Turning the other cheek is fine and noble, until you run out of cheeks.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
|
Post #28,656
2/16/02 1:19:23 PM
|
Majorily unfair and in the favor of evil people.
I will shed no tear for bosses that come up to talk to me about how their pay-raise just put them into another income bracket so now they have to pay more taxes. Or how much taxes they get out of their bonus checks for working us to death? Or how much they lost in the stock market, (Hey Norman, I just lost more money than you make in three years!) due to the Dotcom busts? The world's smallest violin is playing for them. They can take their illgotten gains and just move to a secret island somewhere and leave the rest of us alone and allow someone who knows the f*ck what they are doing to take over as a new manager.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
Post #29,062
2/20/02 11:48:52 AM
|
Go to any hospital emergency room
Tell them you are depressed and suicidal.
I guarantee you will be whisked in the door with the only people ahead of you being massive trauma and cardiac cases.
The average hunter gatherer works 20 hours a week.
The average farmer works 40 hours a week.
The average programmer works 60 hours a week.
What the hell are we thinking?
|
Post #29,137
2/20/02 9:02:39 PM
|
Tried it before
Was told to wait in the waiting room, two and a half hours, got moved to a screening room, another hour and a half wait, got admitted and spent a week in a hospital mental health wing watching video tapes of 1950's and 1970's adolecent mental health video tapes, and attending group meetings where they discussed David Burns "Feeling Good" that I had already read about 10 years ago and it didn't work for me. There was not activity therapy or physical therapy, blame "Managed Care" for that. All they did was drink coffee and got on smoke breaks every 15 minutes on the hour. I didn't drink coffee or smoke, so I didn't fit into their groups too well.
I got home, and had a huge bill to pay. This was back in August 2001 when this happened. Around Sept 11th, I was so depressed that I was sleeping a lot before it happened. My wife woke me up and told me to watch the TV, she said someone attacked New York. I imeddiately thought it was the United nations building and some terrorist with a bomb in a backpack just walked right into the front lobby and blew himsefl up or something. Little did I know it was the twin towers of the world trade center and some Jihadistic idiots flew two passinger planes into the towers.
But anyway, what happened to me after the hospital stay? I had three months off of work on sick-leave, returned to probation at work, worked three weeks, some jackholes made up rumors about me, and I still do not have an official reason why they let me go written on paper. I was on unemployment for a while, and now I got a helpdesk job that pays peanuts and hope that I don't lose my house.
So let me ask you, as a result of my hospitalization all I did was owe more money to a hospital and doctor, lost my job, and finally found another job, but am I better off than I was before? Not really, I'd be better off if I did a Kurt Cobain like a friend of mine did, ended it right there, listed my employer as the main reason why I killed myself in my suicide note, and have the managers tried for at least mainslaughter for working me so hard that the stress got too much for me. I did tell them I had a mental health illness and gave them notes from my doctor, but they continued to pile the workload on me and put me under pressure. It is criminal, in my opinion, to work someone that hard when they have a condition like I have. Under Mo Law, the life insurance would have to cover the suicide and my family would be cared for. God of course would understand why I did it, and see that those who abused me would be brought to justice.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
Post #29,184
2/21/02 9:33:43 AM
|
you are better off than before
by 5 months, By killing yourself you are proving to those folks they were right in getting rid of you. FUCK them, do your poor job well. Do your wife well, do your child well, suck up the pain and win by dying of natural causes. Tough? Yeah, it takes a tough guy to keep on truckin.
thanx,
bill
"I'm selling a hammer," he says. "They can beat nails with it, or their dog."
Richard Eaton spy software innovator
|
Post #29,282
2/21/02 4:18:57 PM
|
Yeah, the bad guys get what they want.
But what typicaly makes them bad guys is a failure to want what they need.
You can't always get what you want. But if you try, sometimes you get what you need. (No, I didn't make that up. It's true, though.)
Socrates pointed out that a virtuous life is the most valuable thing there is. It doesn't matter what trinkets the bad guys win - they lose the big one. He went on to say that the truest form of greed is virtue - the virtuous grab the best there is for themselves. Having seen your transformation a while back, I think you are greedy like that. Socrates was very familiar with your complaint - the war slugs who ran Athens killed him in the end, because he was making them look bad and making the kids think too much.
----
"You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
|
Post #29,327
2/21/02 10:38:16 PM
|
Bad guys always win in real life
that was my whole point in many of my messages.
Besides didn't Socrates drink [link|http://museum.gov.ns.ca/poison/hemlock.htm|hemlock] to kill himself after he was falsely accused of a crime he didn't commit and thrown into jail? Bad example, if he believed his words, he wouldn't have drank the hemlock.
[link|http://www.philosophypages.com/ph/socr.htm|[link|http://www.philosophypages.com/ph/socr.htm|http://www.philosop.../ph/socr.htm]]
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
Post #29,332
2/21/02 11:45:13 PM
|
Not always
A lot of the time, yes, but not always.
True story from my college days:
I went to school (ROTC) with an absolute piece of shit. Had no intention of getting a degree; was just scamming the government. Well, the Air Force finally wized up and pulled his ass back onto active duty to finish his enlistment. But he wasted nearly 4 years of scholarship money that could have gone to someone "worthwhile." I graduated and several years went by when I ran into a mutual friend. It seems the shithead pushed things to far and was spending the next 5-15 years as a guest of Uncle Sam in Ft Leavenworth, Kansas (he was ~33; she was ~16...and the colonel's daughter!)
I empathize with you completely. It sucks to follow the rules you were taught growing up, doing the right thing, but still losing out to complete jack-offs. Well, they don't always win. Sometimes the shitheads DO get their comeuppance.
Ya gotta hang in there. If you stoop to their level--they win. If you give up and blow your brains out--they win. Whatever you do, you can't give the bastards the cheap victory.
Brian Bronson
|
Post #29,337
2/22/02 1:50:39 AM
|
Re: Socrates: not that simple
Drinking the Hemlock was his sentence, not his suicide. He decided that accepting his sentence was the right and good thing to do and therefore did. Read up on [link|http://plato.evansville.edu/texts/jowett/phaedo15.htm|Plato's Dialogues]. That's the account of Socrates death. See also [link|http://plato-dialogues.org/tetra_3/tetra_3.htm#case|this page] about Plato's writings. Socrates was tried and convicted of "impiety" and sentenced to death. He could have saved his life by escaping but chose not to: Because Socrates was accused of impiety, as a prelude to the trial itself, Plato confronts his understanding of piety with that of one of the upholders of Athenian religion, a sort of seer supposed to be an expert on religious matters, who goes by the name of Euthyphro and happens to have some business in court at the same time as Socrates. And to show how far from corrupting the city Socrates is, Plato shows us how, after his trial, he prefers to lose his life by virtue of a lawful, though unjust, condemnation, rather than making fun of the law by fleeing away with the help of friends. He DID believe his words, and that is precisely WHY he chose to drink the poison versus escaping. -----
Steve
|
Post #29,412
2/22/02 2:20:45 PM
|
I've seen bad guys lose in real life.
And not just those icky Taliban on the teevee.
I once had an abusive boss who was a cofounder of the company. He pissed so many people off that he got outvoted on the board, and was forced to um, "take a less active role in the day-to-day operations of the company."
I once got a sleazy lying client rep fired by refusing to cover for him.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes.
|
Post #29,457
2/22/02 10:15:29 PM
|
very rarely, if at all, do they lose.
But answer me this, what is that ex-client rep doing now? Maybe be working as a manager in a different company and doing the same stuff over again?
Whatever becomes of those grade school and high school bullies? You graduate with them, but lose track of them. They usually get jobs where they have a bit of power or can abuse people at will. Police officers, managers, supervisors, client reps, etc.
So what if they lose one battle or two, they still win the war and get a different job someplace else.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
Post #29,572
2/24/02 6:38:45 PM
|
That isn't my experience
I have known my share of nice and nasty people.
Many of the nasty ones of my aquaintance have wound up in the end turning their lives into nasty hell-holes. Many of the nice ones have wound up with decent ones. Exceptions abound both ways of course. But I have never met someone who was both nasty and honestly satisfied with how their life had turned out. I have met nice ones who could say "I have no real regrets" and mean it.
Note that satisfaction and external success are orthogonal goals. Of the various people I have known who have achieved extremes of cultural success, not one has been able to get any real satisfaction from the accomplishment. That holds for both the nice and mean ones, albeit for different reasons.
Stop focussing on how you have been done wrong to. Stop talking about how many mean and nasty people there are. Start thinking long and hard about what matters to you, and how you are going to get it. Every time I wind up doing that I wind up telling my wife that I love her. YMMV (all things considered, I hope it does, after all you have your own!), but unless you focus on getting the basics right, nothing will really help.
Cheers,
Ben
|
Post #29,590
2/25/02 12:18:07 AM
|
Mean people s*ck!
I've know a lot of mean people that love their jobs and their life. From the HR lady who smiles when she tells someone they have to leave the company, to the security guard that smiles when escourting them out, to the bouncers who work in bars and movie theatres and love to throw people out, to Police Officers who love to give out tickets and bash someone in the head when they resist arrest or not, to the politicians who love to get into office and start screwing around with people's rights in the laws they try to pass. Mean people s*ck, but from what I have seen, they love being mean.
Right now not a lot matters to me. My will to live has been sucked out of me. My confidence is shot. I have lost faith and hope. All I look forward to is the day when I die and all of this is over for me. But death never comes for me when I need to die, and thus I am allowed to keep living and suffering. This makes me a hard person to kill.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
Post #29,592
2/25/02 1:36:21 AM
|
I would bet that you know none of them well
To be sure, many mean people enjoy being mean.
That doesn't stop them from disliking dealing with the kind of people who are willing to be friends with them despite their being the kind of people they are. That doesn't make them feel better when they get in a fight at home.
While it doesn't always work out very fairly in the end, it does frequently enough that it is rather stupid in the end to be a mean person.
Cheers,
Ben
|
Post #29,618
2/25/02 10:58:17 AM
|
One day they will go home
and get confused and kiss the dog and kick their spouse?
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
|
