Not impressed.

Looks like every other one I've seen, other than the Smalltalky bits. I really dislike systems that conflate HTML with code. I find them difficult to debug (where is this HTML coming from?) and difficult to rearrange when I want the page to look like something else.

I don't want it to look "something" like the HTML... I want to look at it and immediately understand what I'm getting. Difficult stuff can be put in a tag and called from the template.

Django's template system has a thing called [link|http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/templates/#template-inheritance|blocks] as well:

In a parent template:
{% block foo %}This is the default.{% endblock %}

Then inherit that parent, and replace the 'foo' block if you want to specialize:
{% block foo %}This is not the default.{% endblock %}

Very useful. Django templates have the added bonus of being output-neutral: use them for emails, CSV, whatever.

First, your example can produce broken html - just forget one of those endblock thingys.

Second, Seaside has components - like widgets. You don't put the whole thing in one page, you have components like WebObjects or conventional GUI's had them.

Then there are halos. You can turn on halos in your page (from a set of links at the bottom) and boxes get drawn around all the component boundaries so you can see what part of the page is produced by which component. When halos are on, there are switches that let you render the HTML source for any PART of the page (or all of it). See below. Clicking the R shows you the Rendered html. S turns on the source view (see lower left).

The wrench opens a source code browser on the component. The eye is an inspector on the image where you can view/edit all the fields in the object. The crayon allows you edit css for that page region. I have no trouble telling where every bit of html comes from.

[image|http://www.inextenso.com/misc/blogs/sw2-halos/1.jpg||||]

Post #283,657 by admin 5/2/07 11:45:42 AM Reply	Not impressed. Looks like every other one I've seen, other than the Smalltalky bits. I really dislike systems that conflate HTML with code. I find them difficult to debug (where is this HTML coming from?) and difficult to rearrange when I want the page to look like something else. I don't want it to look "something" like the HTML... I want to look at it and immediately understand what I'm getting. Difficult stuff can be put in a tag and called from the template. Django's template system has a thing called [link\|http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/templates/#template-inheritance\|blocks] as well: In a parent template: {% block foo %}This is the default.{% endblock %} Then inherit that parent, and replace the 'foo' block if you want to specialize: {% block foo %}This is not the default.{% endblock %} Very useful. Django templates have the added bonus of being output-neutral: use them for emails, CSV, whatever. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,735 by tuberculosis 5/2/07 10:23:42 PM 8/21/07 6:07:07 AM Reply	You still don't get it First, your example can produce broken html - just forget one of those endblock thingys. Second, Seaside has components - like widgets. You don't put the whole thing in one page, you have components like WebObjects or conventional GUI's had them. Then there are halos. You can turn on halos in your page (from a set of links at the bottom) and boxes get drawn around all the component boundaries so you can see what part of the page is produced by which component. When halos are on, there are switches that let you render the HTML source for any PART of the page (or all of it). See below. Clicking the R shows you the Rendered html. S turns on the source view (see lower left). The wrench opens a source code browser on the component. The eye is an inspector on the image where you can view/edit all the fields in the object. The crayon allows you edit css for that page region. I have no trouble telling where every bit of html comes from. [image\|http://www.inextenso.com/misc/blogs/sw2-halos/1.jpg\|\|\|\|] We posture as apostles of fair play, as good sportsmen, as professional knights-errant-- and we throw beer bottles at the umpire when he refuses to cheat for our side...We save the black-and-tan republics from their native [statesmen]--and flood them with "deserving" democrats of our own. We deafen the world with our whoops for liberty--and submit to laws that destroy our most sacred rights...We play policeman and Sunday-school superintendent to half of Christendom--and lynch a darky every two days in our own backyard. H.L. Mencken, 1914 Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:07 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #283,749 by admin 5/2/07 11:12:10 PM Reply	No, I get it just fine. I just don't agree with you that it's as useful as you seem to think it is, and I dislike the paradigm itself. Don't confuse disagreement with ignorance. I prefer my HTML widgets to be written in HTML and markup, thank you very much. Not some unrelated language. And if I forget and endblock, I produce a trace showing me that I forgot an endblock... not broken HTML. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,753 by tuberculosis 5/2/07 11:25:03 PM 8/21/07 6:07:34 AM Reply	Been there before - maintenance Hell - not going back We posture as apostles of fair play, as good sportsmen, as professional knights-errant-- and we throw beer bottles at the umpire when he refuses to cheat for our side...We save the black-and-tan republics from their native [statesmen]--and flood them with "deserving" democrats of our own. We deafen the world with our whoops for liberty--and submit to laws that destroy our most sacred rights...We play policeman and Sunday-school superintendent to half of Christendom--and lynch a darky every two days in our own backyard. H.L. Mencken, 1914 Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:34 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #283,754 by admin 5/2/07 11:33:17 PM Reply	Your experience differs from mine. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,789 by tuberculosis 5/3/07 9:56:31 AM 8/21/07 6:08:11 AM Reply	Apparently so We posture as apostles of fair play, as good sportsmen, as professional knights-errant-- and we throw beer bottles at the umpire when he refuses to cheat for our side...We save the black-and-tan republics from their native [statesmen]--and flood them with "deserving" democrats of our own. We deafen the world with our whoops for liberty--and submit to laws that destroy our most sacred rights...We play policeman and Sunday-school superintendent to half of Christendom--and lynch a darky every two days in our own backyard. H.L. Mencken, 1914 Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:11 AM EDT Expand All History

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