White House's criticism of Pelosi's trip to Syria is pure BS

At the White House, President Bush criticized Ms. Pelosi's visit, saying it sent mixed signals to the Middle East and to President Bashar's government.

"Sending delegations hasn't worked,"\ufffd Mr. Bush told reporters. "It's just simply been counterproductive."\ufffd

First, there was a Republican congressional delegation in Syria [link|http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/30/syria-hypocrisy/|immediately before Pelosi]. Asked if the White House was equally concerned about their trip, spokesperson Dana Perino [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070402-4.html|dodged the question]. You think it's possible that politics is driving Bush's criticism?

Second, if diplomatic outreach is a mistake, why did Bush's State Department [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/30/AR2007033001430.html|recently initiate] some tentative discussions with Syrian officials?

Third, there's [link|http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/04/did_white_house.php|some evidence] that the Bush administration helped facilitate the Republicans' trip at the exact same time it was criticizing the Democrats' trip.

If there's even one angle to this story that conservatives have gotten right, I don't see it.

[link|http://www.crooksandliars.com/|www.crooksandliars.com/]

Rep. Nick Rahall (D-WV), who traveled last week with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) as part of her delegation to the Middle East, said this morning on C-Span that Pelosi told Bush of the trip to Syria a day before they left, and Bush did not object.

Rahall said, \ufffdThe Speaker had met with President Bush in the halls of the U.S. Capitol just the day before we left and mentioned to him that we were going to Syria. No response at all from the President.\ufffd

Despite the White House\ufffds public rhetoric that the trip was a \ufffdbad idea,\ufffd President Bush \ufffddid not tell her not to go, nor did the State Department tell us not to go,\ufffd Rahall said. \ufffdThe State Department was certainly aware of our traveling to Syria and our full itinerary. And there were State Department officials in every meeting that we had on this codel. So that is all hogwash as far as I\ufffdm concerned.\ufffd

Transcript:

CALLER: I am a Republican. And I thought under the Logan Act that Ms. Pelosi has committed a felony because under our Constitution, section 2 of the Constitution, that the president is the one who conducts \ufffd sends the people off, to conduct our foreign affairs. Now he told her he didn\ufffdt want her to go. That is a violation of the Logan Act. She should be hauled off in jail because if i was to commit a felony, i\ufffdd be hauled off and gone to jail.

RAHALL: First of all, that\ufffds baloney. We were in violation of no u.s. laws. Second of all, the President did not tell her not to go, nor did the State Department tell us not to go. There were three Republican members of Congress in Damascus a few days before our trip. There was a Republican member of Congress in Damascus meeting with the President after our trip.

The Speaker had met with President Bush in the halls of the U.S. Capitol just the day before we left and mentioned to him that we were going to Syria. No response at all from the President. The State Department was certainly aware of our traveling to Syria and our full itinerary. And there were State Department officials in every meeting that we had on this codel. So that is all hogwash as far as I\ufffdm concerned.

[link|http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/08/rahall-syria-trip/|http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/08/rahall-syria-trip/]

Post #280,638 by lincoln 4/4/07 3:17:39 PM 4/4/07 4:33:28 PM Reply	White House's criticism of Pelosi's trip to Syria is pure BS At the White House, President Bush criticized Ms. Pelosi's visit, saying it sent mixed signals to the Middle East and to President Bashar's government. "Sending delegations hasn't worked,"\ufffd Mr. Bush told reporters. "It's just simply been counterproductive."\ufffd First, there was a Republican congressional delegation in Syria [link\|http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/30/syria-hypocrisy/\|immediately before Pelosi]. Asked if the White House was equally concerned about their trip, spokesperson Dana Perino [link\|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070402-4.html\|dodged the question]. You think it's possible that politics is driving Bush's criticism? Second, if diplomatic outreach is a mistake, why did Bush's State Department [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/30/AR2007033001430.html\|recently initiate] some tentative discussions with Syrian officials? Third, there's [link\|http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/04/did_white_house.php\|some evidence] that the Bush administration helped facilitate the Republicans' trip at the exact same time it was criticizing the Democrats' trip. If there's even one angle to this story that conservatives have gotten right, I don't see it. [link\|http://www.crooksandliars.com/\|www.crooksandliars.com/] lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me] Edited by lincoln April 4, 2007, 04:33:28 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #280,642 by a6l6e6x 4/4/07 4:05:46 PM Reply	OT: Why do your quoted ' look like \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd? Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #280,647 by lincoln 4/4/07 4:35:33 PM Reply	Hell If I Know I copied and pasted straight from the page as displayed in Firefox, adjusting all of the character strings that were representing the single quotation character. Funny thing is, when I saw the page in Preview Mode, everything looked fine before submission. lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]
Post #280,723 by CRConrad 4/5/07 7:46:28 AM Reply	Try: View / Encoding / Western (ISO-8859-1). HTH!
Post #280,740 by a6l6e6x 4/5/07 10:58:08 AM Reply	That is my Firefox default. Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #280,767 by lincoln 4/5/07 2:49:25 PM Reply	That's the defaulted setting that I have lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]
Post #281,069 by lincoln 4/9/07 3:51:54 PM Reply	Another Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich took a trip to China in 1997 and spoke to the Chinese government about how to handle Taiwan in a complete opposite of what the Clinton administration had as their official policy. Then, in 1998 he goes to Israel and does the same thing regarding control of the city of Jerusalem. Funny how no one on the Right ever complained about *THAT* Speaker usurping the President of the USA and "formenting his own foreign policy" ... [link\|http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/04/05/gingrich_china/index.html\|Glen Greenwald column in Salon] lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]
Post #281,074 by bepatient 4/9/07 4:10:15 PM Reply	What about ppl on the left? Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,097 by CRConrad 4/9/07 6:03:16 PM Reply	WTF about them??? Can't you EVER just ADMIT that YOUR assholes are actually sometimes even BIGGER assholes than the other assholes??? No, it's always, "what about...?". Next, you'll go "What about Clinton?". FYI, he just got a frigging BLOWJOB. He did NOT get ~3,000 Americans (not to mention untold thousands of ragheads) KILLED by LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE _ABOUT MATTERS OF WAR AND PEACE_. (Lying about getting a blowjob, leading to AFAIK exactly ZERO people getting killed, kind of pales in comparison.) But you're just a "Pessimist"... Yeah, right. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #281,098 by boxley 4/9/07 6:07:38 PM Reply	are you getting lazy as you get older? caps are no substitution for your (usually) glowing prose. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #281,100 by bepatient 4/9/07 6:09:13 PM 4/9/07 6:19:42 PM Reply	Did they complain? You bitch about this "tactic"...but don't use it on the above post...equal in stupidity. Why does such obvious stupidity in that post get a pass...but the more realistic question in my previous post title gets the full wrath of CRC...gibbering on about ppl getting killed and other completely irrelevent points to the question at hand...which relates to the speakers trip and the reactions to it by the different "sides" of US politics. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew} Edited by bepatient April 9, 2007, 06:19:42 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #281,106 by Seamus 4/9/07 6:23:29 PM Reply	A better comparison is to compare the Clinton administration's reaction to Bush's reaction. I don't think they are in the same league. Seamus
Post #281,109 by bepatient 4/9/07 6:37:25 PM Reply	Don't know my point is very plainly that the semtiment expressed in the link to the Salon article is idiotic. Why didn't the Republican's bitch when a Republican went on a trip during a Dem presidency? Where were they then? Puh-freakin-leez Of course they didn't say anything. But, of course, say anything around here that even remotely looks like it could be possible to be construed as pro-repo and (in true x-ian fashion) the cross is thrown on the back and its off to the crucifiction. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,111 by Seamus 4/9/07 7:06:48 PM Reply	Not idiotic at all Personally, I wouldn't call it idiotic to point out that by the criteria the repos are using now they should have criticized Gingrich back then also. He is pointing out that if it is a grave error now, it should have been a grave error then, no matter who made it. Pointing that out it is obviously about their hypocrisy today. Of course they didn't say anything back then? Not only didn't they criticize the trip, they praised Gringrich for it. How do you go from praising Gringrich to condemning Pelosi without changing your ethics? That is the point of the article, and certainly is not idiotic. One republican had the stones to say the criticism of the Pelosi trip was BS. Seamus
Post #281,128 by bepatient 4/9/07 8:45:59 PM Reply	Yes it is Its politics. The Reps are gonna criticize the Dems for this, and IIRC the dems were critical when Newt did it last decade. Were they AS critical? Did Clinton say exactly the same thing as Bush? Who cares? To somehow think that it is hypocritical now that the Reps didn't say anything to Newt 10 years ago is mental masturbation at its finest. OF COURSE THEY didn't. He was on their side. Its politics. DUH! Of course the criticism is bs. Its politics. Synonyms. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,188 by Seamus 4/9/07 11:26:27 PM Reply	BS The repos are saying this is more than mere partisan politics. If that is true now, it was true then. Seamus
Post #281,195 by bepatient 4/10/07 12:38:12 AM Reply	What a shocker. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,209 by Seamus 4/10/07 7:23:40 AM Reply	Whatever Seamus
Post #281,232 by Seamus 4/10/07 12:36:45 PM Reply	I am probably gonna regret this To somehow think that it is hypocritical now that the Reps didn't say anything to Newt 10 years ago is mental masturbation at its finest. OF COURSE THEY didn't. He was on their side. Its politics. DUH! Occasionally politicians rise above partisan politics to criticize members of their own party, esp about foreign policy. They weren't just silent about it, they back him up because of what they felt was Clinton's diplomatic failings. The only reason they are taking the approach they are using now is because they don't want Bush's utterly massive failings with this fiasco that he wrought upon us to be criticized. To point out that the current criticism is hypocritical using reminders from the past is more than mere mental masturbation because of the seriousness of the mess Bush has put us in. It maybe naive to think it will work, but it is facile to think that this is mere politics. Seamus
Post #281,240 by bepatient 4/10/07 2:10:53 PM Reply	Its the very definition of politics Especially in the current environment. Any opening you have to blame the other side is leveraged to the hilt. Its is indeed a sad testimony of what our representative government has become. Even worse is I don't see anyone on either side that seems interested in changing it. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,285 by Seamus 4/10/07 5:23:12 PM Reply	Its not the only definition of politics It certainly is the default. Asking politicians to use a different definition maybe naive but it is not idiotic. I was going to use the tilting at wind mills line, but I didn't think people would sense the irony. Seamus
Post #281,287 by bepatient 4/10/07 6:18:52 PM Reply	Ok. Call me Imus I used too strong a statement. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,292 by Seamus 4/10/07 6:49:10 PM Reply	Imus you're not Seamus
Post #281,299 by bepatient 4/10/07 8:52:55 PM Reply	True, I'm not crusty, mean and loaded. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,311 by a6l6e6x 4/10/07 10:18:51 PM Reply	Re: "don't see anyone on either side that seems.. interested in changing it" Well, "the uniter" said he was going to change that. But he became "the decider" and lied about the first part! Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #281,338 by bepatient 4/11/07 8:03:11 AM Reply	Among other things. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,249 by lincoln 4/10/07 2:40:24 PM Reply	Considering that Newt himself is piling on Pelosi that is hypocrisy of the highest magnitude. Also, as soon as I can re-find the link, I'll post it: Pelosi briefed Dubya before going on the trip, yet afterwards Shrub is whining that Pelosi was trying to implement her own brand of foreign policy. If that were true then why hasn't the State Department raised a stink? I call BULLSHIT on specific Republican politicians and the Right overall. lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]
Post #281,253 by bepatient 4/10/07 2:58:38 PM Reply	I agree totally and still say "thats politics". Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #281,265 by lincoln 4/10/07 3:33:40 PM Reply	Found a link Rep. Nick Rahall (D-WV), who traveled last week with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) as part of her delegation to the Middle East, said this morning on C-Span that Pelosi told Bush of the trip to Syria a day before they left, and Bush did not object. Rahall said, \ufffdThe Speaker had met with President Bush in the halls of the U.S. Capitol just the day before we left and mentioned to him that we were going to Syria. No response at all from the President.\ufffd Despite the White House\ufffds public rhetoric that the trip was a \ufffdbad idea,\ufffd President Bush \ufffddid not tell her not to go, nor did the State Department tell us not to go,\ufffd Rahall said. \ufffdThe State Department was certainly aware of our traveling to Syria and our full itinerary. And there were State Department officials in every meeting that we had on this codel. So that is all hogwash as far as I\ufffdm concerned.\ufffd Transcript: CALLER: I am a Republican. And I thought under the Logan Act that Ms. Pelosi has committed a felony because under our Constitution, section 2 of the Constitution, that the president is the one who conducts \ufffd sends the people off, to conduct our foreign affairs. Now he told her he didn\ufffdt want her to go. That is a violation of the Logan Act. She should be hauled off in jail because if i was to commit a felony, i\ufffdd be hauled off and gone to jail. RAHALL: First of all, that\ufffds baloney. We were in violation of no u.s. laws. Second of all, the President did not tell her not to go, nor did the State Department tell us not to go. There were three Republican members of Congress in Damascus a few days before our trip. There was a Republican member of Congress in Damascus meeting with the President after our trip. The Speaker had met with President Bush in the halls of the U.S. Capitol just the day before we left and mentioned to him that we were going to Syria. No response at all from the President. The State Department was certainly aware of our traveling to Syria and our full itinerary. And there were State Department officials in every meeting that we had on this codel. So that is all hogwash as far as I\ufffdm concerned. [link\|http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/08/rahall-syria-trip/\|http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/08/rahall-syria-trip/] lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]
Post #281,248 by lincoln 4/10/07 2:37:16 PM Reply	you mean, besides the White House? lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]

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