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New if you ever got off yer ass and read something else
besides salon you would have known that years ago
antiwar.com's Mr. Raimondo has been blowing that clarion call since day 1 of the bush administration along with jack boots buchanan. Even the much maligned worldnetdaily.com has twigged for a while but I guess it isnt true unless salon or the bbc sez so.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Dunno.
I think he really thought he could be Reagan II, with some of his father's "Kinder, Gentler" thrown in. Look at what the White House was talking about in [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/08/|August 2001]. Or, take a look at his own summary of his [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/08/20010803-10.html|first 6 months]. The military got one line. He said he planned to start attacking big domestic problems in September:

Beginning in September, I'll be proposing creative ways to tackle some of the toughest problems in our society. We must take the side of parents trying to raise responsible, motivated and moral children. We must help disadvantaged Americans find opportunity and ownership and the tools to succeed in our free economy. We must show that our welcoming society values the ideals and contributions of immigrants. We must challenge Americans to be citizens, not spectators, in the renewal of their neighborhoods and their cities.


"9/11 Changed Everything."

I think his initial reaction to the attacks - [link|http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm|"Sounds like we have a minor war going on here, I heard about the Pentagon. We're at war . . . some-body's going to pay."] indicates his change of heart. (Imagine what the world and the US would be like if he had treated it as a "minor war" rather than this [link|http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_War_on_Terror|GWOT] monstrosity.) Once he crossed that Rubicon, he was much more amenable to grabbing as much power as he could to make "somebody" pay.

So, yes - there's no doubt that Bush is not a Reagan or Goldwater conservative. But I don't think he came into office that way.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Not true
That was their public line, and the 9/11 attack certainly did change some things. It may even have changed how Bush himself looked at these things.

But it has been documented that the planning for the invasion of Iraq was started before 9/11. Given the people and groups involved, it is obvious they where just waiting for their chance.

Jay
New We had plans on the books to invade the UK in the '20s.
[link|http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcanadawar.html|The Straight Dope]. There have probably been plans to invade Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states since at least the [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Doctrine|Carter Administration].

There are probably dozens of people in the government who do nothing all day but think about what it would take to invade country X and about potential justifications for it. Sometimes they have a lot of sway; sometimes they don't. I'm sure there were plans for Iraq, especially since it was US policy since [link|http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/libera.htm|Halloween 1998] to work toward the overthrow of Iraq's government. It wouldn't have made much sense to have such a policy without also having plans on the shelf for how to do it by force.

Yes, GWB wanted to get rid of Saddam the worst way. And he did - the worst way. :-(

We come down in slightly different places on this.

Having plans on the shelf and the desire to get rid of Saddam is different, in my eyes, from thinking there was a [link|http://www.gregpalast.com/bush-didnt-bungle-iraq-you-fools/|White House cabal] intent on enriching their oil buddies at the expense of the country and the world, and that Iraq turned out exactly as they planned. I don't buy that - I don't buy grand conspiracies in general.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New The plans were in George's head
"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade\ufffd.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency."

[link|http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1028-01.html|http://www.commondre...es04/1028-01.html]
Seamus
New POLO STEP
[link|http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB214/index.htm|National Security Archive]:

[...]

POLO STEP was a coded compartment created during the Clinton administration to encompass covert Iraq and counter-terrorism plans and activities. In the mid-1990s, the compartment specifically included the targeting of Osama bin Laden. Following the September 11 attacks, CentCom, among other military and national security components, used the designation to cover planning for the war in Iraq. (Note 1)

In mid-2002, military analyst William Arkin obtained a leaked copy of a briefing on the Iraq plans and revealed the existence of POLO STEP in an op-ed for the Los Angeles Times (June 23, 2002, p. M1). According to Arkin, the revelation unleashed the fury of Gen. Franks and Secretary Rumsfeld who immediately ordered a probe of the leak that lasted until the end of 2003 and subjected more than 1,000 military and contractor personnel to sometimes repeated questioning. (Note 2)

The slides in this Web posting are a compilation reflecting various iterations in war planning. The U.S. government maintains plans for conflict with a multitude of possible adversaries. The contingency operating plan for Iraq--OPLAN 1003-98--had last been fully reviewed in 1996 and was updated in 1998. It envisioned an invasion force of more than 380,000 troops. Former CentCom commander Gen. Anthony Zinni (who saw gaps in the plan--particularly in regard to the post-war order) organized a war game--Desert Crossing--in 1999 to examine additional contingencies.

[...]


FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I am not implying that military plans didn't exist
just that George had planned on implementing them no matter what the justification. A more rational president, Republican or Democrat, would not have marched us into war with Iraq without an actual justification.
Seamus
New Those are fringe elements are they not?
The article is arguing that mainline conservatives are just now now waking to this fact.

Seamus
New Pat Buchanan is a FRINGE? He is as mainstream conservative
as you can get. Speech writer for Dutch, etc
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Pat Buchanan is off the reservation at times
The other two are definitely fringe.
Seamus
     Greenwald nails both the Neoconmen, wishy-washy David Brooks - (Ashton) - (11)
         The one thing I would add is that they like expanded gov - (Seamus)
         if you ever got off yer ass and read something else - (boxley) - (9)
             Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                 Not true - (JayMehaffey) - (4)
                     We had plans on the books to invade the UK in the '20s. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                         The plans were in George's head - (Seamus) - (2)
                             POLO STEP - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 I am not implying that military plans didn't exist - (Seamus)
             Those are fringe elements are they not? - (Seamus) - (2)
                 Pat Buchanan is a FRINGE? He is as mainstream conservative - (boxley) - (1)
                     Pat Buchanan is off the reservation at times - (Seamus)

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